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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Evil - not so evil
Thread: Evil - not so evil This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
MornVatreniVuk
MornVatreniVuk


Adventuring Hero
posted April 19, 2008 07:25 AM

Evil - not so evil

OK, I don't know , maybe there has already been this thread, but here it goes...

I always liked the ,,good side'' factions more than evil ones (factions itself, not the creatures), but what bothers me is the lack of truly evil factions in the game. OK, there are demons, but when you play the campaign with Agrael, you play for the side of good, and it is same for the Dungeon (Raelag, Ilaya) Necropolis (Arantir) and Orks (well, they could be classified as half-evil, because they sacrifice creatures, not artifacts for exp.
The only truly evil campaign was with Markal. But still they(gamemakers)want to tell us how the Necros aren't so bad, just misunderstood (they are raising dead for good's sake), and that Dark Elves are understanding and not entirely chaos based, and that even with Demons you can find some good.
And the last thing. I've found more evil in Alaric than in, let's say, demons.
So in the end, there are 4 good factions, 3 undecided, and 1 evil (without the evil campaign).

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted April 19, 2008 07:52 AM

Morality recently, in movies tv/shows/etc follows the same trend.  The good guys are not all good, the bad guys are not all bad, and the homicidal maniac was mistreated when he/she was young.

I don't mind multifacited personalities.  Often in life not everything is black and white.  The psychological things (like child abuse etc) I will keep my trap shut about, but lets just say I see things different then most.

Culture goes through these things, and once one picks up something it is like they all do.  (This is why one successful 'superhero' movie spawned like a million of the blasted things).  It then tends to get done to death, and the next fad takes it's place.  Right now, however, I don't see an end for the multifacited approach.

In this case it can get a bit ... odd, but it works.  Things are not black and white. IMO this is a good thing.
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 19, 2008 08:28 AM

On the other hand, we could hardly imagine uber-evil character which tries to destroy the whole world and does not seem ridiculous at the same time. The time of fairy tales has gone and won't come back, I hope.

In fact, most of them follows some positive purposes, however may look negative from the view of the others. Doing evil just for evil is not likely.

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted April 19, 2008 10:07 AM
Edited by Cleave at 10:08, 19 Apr 2008.

I agree with what you said and for the record I'd like to state that Kha Beleth is a cool dude, in fact if you talked about him to a friend who knows nothing about heroes your friend might think he's a new West Coast Rapper.
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zamrai
zamrai


Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
posted April 19, 2008 10:20 AM

I agree with you guys.
That's why I don't like Heaven faction - they seem far to holy for me (all these priests and archangels)
According to the far-east philosophical approach the absolute evil just could not exist because it would destroy itself. I think this is very reasonable, life is not about black and white. From the other hand necros fighting for the sake of -good- doesn't seem reliable

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 19, 2008 12:35 PM

This has already been discussed but suffice to say that ubi's intent was to make factions that are not black and white but grey and led by interest and the current leader. For instance both academy and sylvan have committed despicable acts if you check their history yet they are considered generally good. The good old chaotic-lawful and good-evil axis does not have a place here.
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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted April 19, 2008 12:52 PM

We have had semi-good, semi-evil characters and factions since Heroes III and I like it, it adds flavour to the storyline.  I mean look, all factions have their good and evil standpoints:

Haven:
"Good": Alexei Griffin stupidly but valiantly leads the last charge against Kha-Beleth
"Evil": Alaric, 'nuff said

Sylvan:
"Good": Allowing human refugees to enter their borders, attacking the Renegades
"Evil": Blaming Dark Elves for their troubles, Alaron forsaking Alexei's suicidal quest

Academy:
"Good": Zehir and his campaigns to aid the "good" guys
"Evil": Enslaving the Orcs, then creating beast-men to take their place

Fortress:
"Good": Thick old Wulfstan and his thick old honour
"Evil": Rolf and Hangvul constantly manipulating their King... leading him to his own death

Necropolis:
"Good": Arantir, sort of
"Evil": Markal, the most despicable character since Sandro

Dungeon:
"Good": Raelag (to a point), Ylaya and their semi-just if merciless rule
"Evil": Their whole way of life... sacrificing each other, rituals, especially the Soulscar clan

Inferno:
"Good": The demons who served Agrael, though he doesn't quite count
"Evil": Biara... need I elaborate

Stronghold:
"Good": Not killing everything they see while under Gotai and Kujin's rule
"Evil": Killing everything they see while under Quroq's rule, Aratrok in Dark Messiah

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 19, 2008 01:00 PM

Quote:
Inferno:
"Good": The demons who served Agrael, though he doesn't quite count
"Evil": Biara... need I elaborate

Stronghold:
"Good": Not killing everything they see while under Gotai and Kujin's rule
"Evil": Killing everything they see while under Quroq's rule, Aratrok in Dark Messiah

Actually those who served Agrael did so out of fear. He said that he needed demons he can control.

Aratrok was more of a guardian and he saw a 'demon-spawn' trying to destroy the world. The fact that he gave him an honourable deal to go if he defeated him and that the other orcs respected that does not show evil.
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SirJohn
SirJohn


Adventuring Hero
posted April 19, 2008 02:39 PM

I often wonder about players who exclusively play only the evil races.  What does this say about their psyche?  Do they always dress in black and listen to marilyn manson?  Perhaps they hate themselves and turn this hate outwards.
I admit I used to occasionally enjoy playing Necro in HOMM2 but the creatures were more cartoony so I didn't feel immersed in evil.
Anyway, not to be judgemental but I hope these people seek the help they need before its too late.
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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted April 19, 2008 02:57 PM

Quote:
Academy:
"Evil": Enslaving the Orcs, then creating beast-men to take their place


Hm, probably I missed this, my campaign bugged after the necro missions, what happend there LOL?

Quote:

Stronghold:
(...)
"Evil": Killing everything they see while under Quroq's rule, Aratrok in Dark Messiah


Hmm, in DM, they work for Arantir, and guard the spider temple only, they hate humans like always
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 19, 2008 03:06 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 15:11, 19 Apr 2008.

Quote:
Do they always dress in black and listen to marilyn manson?  Perhaps they hate themselves and turn this hate outwards.

Perhaps they are aliens in disguise and drink your coke when you don't see? What do you think about my theory?
Quote:
Anyway, not to be judgemental but I hope these people seek the help they need before its too late.

Perhaps you need help for yourself and turn this search outwards?

You should stop raiting other people using your own groundless claims.

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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted April 19, 2008 04:14 PM

I'm going to defend Alaric. He was NOT evil, he just was oblivious to the fact that he was serving a Demon. At first, he just did as per the Red Queen's orders. Laszlo, on the other hand, was evil, but Alaric was just...maltreated. After all, he was driven mad by Biara's revealing herself. He must have been quite holy in his prime to be driven to insanity by a revelation of the truth.

Biara, now, is the one ultimate evil person in the game. She ruthlessly followed her orders, and then some. SHe destroyed the Griffin Empire, and allowed discord to insue. She ripped open the portals to Sheogh so that innocents could be slaughtered or mistaken for rebels.

Markal, well, he was kind of demented. After all, he laughed at his own death. But, he wasn't without his own kind of charm.

The Factions are all nicely scattered around the evil/good spectrum, imho. None are truly wicked, and none are truly divine.

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zamrai
zamrai


Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
posted April 19, 2008 05:42 PM

Quote:
I often wonder about players who exclusively play only the evil races.  What does this say about their psyche? (...) I hope these people seek the help they need before its too late.


It's just a joke right?
Otherwise: uberlol

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 19, 2008 05:52 PM

Quite Then again it's possible that each time you play evil campaigns your soul is corrupted till you become an empty shell, an agent of darkness and destruction.
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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted April 19, 2008 06:09 PM

Relax everyone, don't jump me... they were just basic examples taken from my eternally-eroding memory.

Quote:
Actually those who served Agrael did so out of fear. He said that he needed demons he can control.


Exactly... so he doesn't quite count

Quote:
Hm, probably I missed this, my campaign bugged after the necro missions, what happend there LOL?


That's mentioned in the timeline (Harpies are one of the races!), not the game itself.

Quote:
Hmm, in DM, they work for Arantir, and guard the spider temple only, they hate humans like always


Arantir is a human...?  Zehir is a human...?

Quote:
I'm going to defend Alaric. He was NOT evil


"False church! You shall burn for your heresy."

"They are everywhere! The hamlets, the cottages, the farms - they must be burned out!"

"Ignorant heretic! Freyda, Laszlo, silence his mouth by removing his head."


Fine, he was either evil or simply a total and utter imbecile who actually believed all this like the rest of the Empire serving under Biara.  How could anyone be so blindly idiotic?

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted April 19, 2008 06:19 PM

Quote:
I often wonder about players who exclusively play only the evil races.  What does this say about their psyche?  Do they always dress in black and listen to marilyn manson?  Perhaps they hate themselves and turn this hate outwards.
I admit I used to occasionally enjoy playing Necro in HOMM2 but the creatures were more cartoony so I didn't feel immersed in evil.
Anyway, not to be judgemental but .



Hehehe,now that was funny to read.I paly mostly the evil races because they are cooler.Look at Haven(boring),at sylvan(Flower sniffers),fortress(Only dwarfs?),academy(Meh,I can not stand them somehow).I mostly play as Necropolis and Dungeon.
I do like the black colour but hate hard rock.Meh,that music is the abomination of sense.
Does this make my a pschotic?


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carcity
carcity


Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
posted April 19, 2008 07:38 PM

Quote:

Dungeon:
"Good": Raelag (to a point), Ylaya and their semi-just if merciless rule
"Evil": Their whole way of life... sacrificing each other, rituals, especially the Soulscar clan



they aren't good or evil. they are outcasts. banished from their own home. and raelag and ylaya just wanted to stop the demons before they attacked the DE.
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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted April 19, 2008 07:45 PM
Edited by Cepheus at 19:47, 19 Apr 2008.

Quote:
they aren't good or evil


Jeez, that is my entire point

"We just wanted to stop the Demons" has gone beyond a tired excuse at this stage

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MornVatreniVuk
MornVatreniVuk


Adventuring Hero
posted April 19, 2008 08:41 PM
Edited by MornVatreniVuk at 20:42, 19 Apr 2008.



Hehehe,now that was funny to read.I paly mostly the evil races because they are cooler.Look at Haven(boring),at sylvan(Flower sniffers),fortress(Only dwarfs?),academy(Meh,I can not stand them somehow).I mostly play as Necropolis and Dungeon.
I do like the black colour but hate hard rock.Meh,that music is the abomination of sense.
Does this make my a pschotic?




That doesn't make you psychotic, but, in the real life evil things are always cooler. But only in the beginning. Better be good and boring, I say.
And I don't get it, Sylvan are not cool because of their flower-sniffing ability? And Fortress is not entirely made of Dwarves. There are bears, dragons and... cool beards...
And if academy is not interesting than I don't know what is. C'mon! They have big human-tiger (lion), multiarmed, cool loking Rakshasas. How great is that.
But, about that grey (both good and bad) villains, it's OK. But give us at least one realy dark villain faction for whom you will say: ,,I'm glad that I have beaten them.''

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SirJohn
SirJohn


Adventuring Hero
posted April 20, 2008 12:15 AM


Hehehe,now that was funny to read.I paly mostly the evil races because they are cooler.Look at Haven(boring),at sylvan(Flower sniffers),fortress(Only dwarfs?),academy(Meh,I can not stand them somehow).I mostly play as Necropolis and Dungeon.
I do like the black colour but hate hard rock.Meh,that music is the abomination of sense.
Does this make my a pschotic?




Not necessarily.  Perhaps many people who are smothered by their religion express their repressed emotions by indulging in these dark fanasies.  Better to let the steam out this way then to do something in real life you might regret later.  Just go with me on this one.

I admit to being pretty bored of most of the factions so I play mostly Stonghold myself.  I don't consider them "true evil" though.  Sometimes I will play the dwarves and very seldomly one of the other factions.  So I don't really think alignment plays any part in my choice.  More the mechanics of their special abilities, i.e. rage and runes are somewhat of a novelty.

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