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| Thread: Evil - not so evil |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted April 20, 2008 12:56 AM |
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Quote:
"False church! You shall burn for your heresy."
"They are everywhere! The hamlets, the cottages, the farms - they must be burned out!"
"Ignorant heretic! Freyda, Laszlo, silence his mouth by removing his head."
Fine, he was either evil or simply a total and utter imbecile who actually believed all this like the rest of the Empire serving under Biara. How could anyone be so blindly idiotic?
Quote No. 1- He actually believed he was holy under the true Queen Isabel.
Quote No. 2 - Again, he was so unaccustomed to demons being out, he didn't know what to make of it, so he did the safest thing. After all, he was partially right. The demons were everywhere.
Quote No. 3 - Well, that's just capital punishment for a theocratic monarchy.
Overall, he wasn't evil, just under false pretenses. The Queen he served was not Isabel, Wife of Nicolai, but Biara, Daughter of Urgash. Had he known that, he would have certainly been on Freyda's side. And, he was eventually driven insane.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 20, 2008 01:54 AM |
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Oh please he is the holy inquisition type who would gladly burn everyone he felt is impure. That's almost as evil as you can get. Doing evil in the name of good is still evil.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted April 20, 2008 02:29 AM |
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Then what does that make doing good in the name of evil?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 20, 2008 02:40 AM |
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Don't confuse people's actions with intent. There's gain to be had in this case.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted April 20, 2008 03:19 AM |
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Indeed, actions speak louder than words, and certainly louder than thoughts. However, the judge of one's true intent gives them the sense of what they're doing is right. And, in Alaric's mind, his actions were just. Does that make him good? From a certain point of view, yes. He was sacrficing many for the good of all, but that all just happend to be his victims. Does that make him evil? From a certain point of view. It all depends on your vantage point. He did things that from the very surface, they were deeply malevolent. However, diving deep under the surface, the intent, the meaning was true. In everything he did, he believed himself to be just and doing it for the good of all men and Elrath. How was he to know he was serving Elrath's enemy? Its an odd irony that by destroying demons he was helping Urgash.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted April 20, 2008 03:47 AM |
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Quote:
Necros aren't so bad, just misunderstood (they are raising dead for good's sake), and that Dark Elves are understanding and not entirely chaos based, and that even with Demons you can find some good.
Wow, it's horrible that there isn't enough Black and White in the game. 
Quote:
But, about that grey (both good and bad) villains, it's OK. But give us at least one realy dark villain faction for whom you will say: ,,I'm glad that I have beaten them.''
I dunno, I like things where it's like you finish the campaign against a mind-enslaver (kill him, set people free) and someone pops up and thanks you for ending world peace.
About Alaric: His actions were evil, but I don't think he was purely EVIL. If there's like a scale of 1 to 10 where Ghandi is 1 and Urgash is 10, he's like a 6 or a 7.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 20, 2008 10:16 AM |
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Quote:
Perhaps many people who are smothered by their religion express their repressed emotions by indulging in these dark fanasies. Better to let the steam out this way then to do something in real life you might regret later. Just go with me on this one.
Yeah, it could be but we are not talking about people already with problems but normal students/employees who, like to play h5 just for relax after job/school, not for fantasies.
Generally, people play dark factions just because they like their abilities and way to play without thinking "oh, they are so EVIL, I like that - I will destroy everything what is good in this land, starting from paladins!"
It's all about maturity and healthy distance, I wouldn't generalise like that.
I like that in heroes series there have always been campaigns of all different factions, "evil" ones too. This is quite view-refreshing see something from a different point. Thanks to that hereos are not churchy and black&white - that would be childish.
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Darkavatar
Adventuring Hero
Overlord Divine
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posted April 20, 2008 10:19 AM |
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Quote:
He was sacrficing many for the good of all
Adolf Hitler sacrificed Jews because of the greater good, he thought.
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What is it exactly we have created. It is "New World Order".
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 20, 2008 11:26 AM |
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Wish I knew. Someone had mentioned he had that problem some months ago but I have not seen him in ages to ask him.
Quote:
Generally, people play dark factions just because they like their abilities and way to play without thinking "oh, they are so EVIL, I like that - I will destroy everything what is good in this land, starting from paladins!"
It's all about maturity and healthy distance, I wouldn't generalise like that.
Umm seriously why not? I am the goody two shoes type but even I can enjoy eradicating paladins and spreading my evil influence BWAHAHA!  Seriously have you played the Sandro campaign in shadow of death? That was brilliant and very entertaining but I enjoyed Gem equally. What does that say about me? I'll tell you. That I can enjoy either part in a story because in the end it's a mix of gameplay and roleplaying. The main character does not have to be like you or share your values for you to like him. A popular example is Artemis Entreri the nemesis of Drizzt. Do I despise what he stands for? Sure but he is still a charismatic individual and a great character.
In the end it's yourself putting a limit to how much you can enjoy the game/story.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 20, 2008 11:37 AM |
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Edited by zamrai at 11:37, 20 Apr 2008.
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Even if you enjoy playing 'evil' and you keep the distance at the same time everything is allright.
I just can't agree with SirJohn saying that everybody (or most) who play dark factions have somewhat rooted psyche.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 20, 2008 12:09 PM |
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Even arguing about it is funny 
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted April 20, 2008 12:31 PM |
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Edited by Cleave at 12:32, 20 Apr 2008.
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Evil in Heroes of Might and Magic is like evil in a comic book or a blockbuster (one of my favourite quotes from the Evil Dead 3: "I may be bad but I feel good").
It's not meant to be in any way like real life nor is it meant to comment on real life situations (although it might have some relevance I don't see it as allegorical).
No offence but I think that some posters (if they are not kidding) are reading too much in this. I might include myself in that category as well.
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13 Heroes
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 20, 2008 12:32 PM |
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Edited by zamrai at 12:33, 20 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Even arguing about it is funny
Yes, it is 
("arguing": what a violent word, some players would say: "sharing thoughts" hah  )
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 20, 2008 12:41 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
But, about that grey (both good and bad) villains, it's OK. But give us at least one realy dark villain faction for whom you will say: ,,I'm glad that I have beaten them.''
I dunno, I like things where it's like you finish the campaign against a mind-enslaver (kill him, set people free) and someone pops up and thanks you for ending world peace.
Angel season 4 episode 21. 
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted April 20, 2008 01:15 PM |
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Quote:
the meaning was true. In everything he did, he believed himself to be just and doing it for the good of all men and Elrath.
"An excessively fanatical priest of Elrath with delusions of grandeur, Alaric was easily seduced by Biara-as-Isabel and her promises of power and glory."
Doesn't sound particularly good or just to me, more like selfish and gullible.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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SirJohn
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 01:46 PM |
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Edited by SirJohn at 13:51, 20 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Even if you enjoy playing 'evil' and you keep the distance at the same time everything is allright.
I just can't agree with SirJohn saying that everybody (or most) who play dark factions have somewhat rooted psyche.
I am just writing about those few in our midst who exclusively play necro from HOMM1 to HOMM5 and also in other games. No way you can make an argument about merely prefering abilities when we are taking about entirely different games. As I said I play some of the non-good factions myself. You can identify these hardcore life-hater types by their posts complaining that necro needs to be buffed.
I hold no ill feeling towards them; in fact I hope they get better, I really do. These people are sick. They need our compassion, not scorn and derision!
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 20, 2008 02:04 PM |
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I see now - so the case is clear.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 20, 2008 03:24 PM |
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There really isn't any point in discussing good or evil in this game.
What is evil? is it killing people? Tricking people into doing things they don't want to do? Is being one of the good guys fighting for what you think is right? That pretty much leaves all factions neutral. But then again, if Necropolis, Dungeon or Inferno isn't considered "fairly" evil, then how come they have such dark towns and scary music?
Alaric and Biara... Hmm, they all fight for what they think is right, although Alaric is/was suffering under delusions. I'd like to call them U.O.P.M.R.P,
"Unaffected by Other Peoples' Moral Restrictions Persons"
That means that for example, Sylvan can look at Alaric and think: "Booo! He's killing innocent persons, that breaks our moral standards!" While inferno can look at him and think: "Hey wonderful job, keep up the good work pal!"
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted April 20, 2008 04:52 PM |
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Quote:
Angel season 4 episode 21.
Oh yes!
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 20, 2008 05:28 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Even if you enjoy playing 'evil' and you keep the distance at the same time everything is allright.
I just can't agree with SirJohn saying that everybody (or most) who play dark factions have somewhat rooted psyche.
I am just writing about those few in our midst who exclusively play necro from HOMM1 to HOMM5 and also in other games. No way you can make an argument about merely prefering abilities when we are taking about entirely different games. As I said I play some of the non-good factions myself. You can identify these hardcore life-hater types by their posts complaining that necro needs to be buffed.
I hold no ill feeling towards them; in fact I hope they get better, I really do. These people are sick. They need our compassion, not scorn and derision!
Hahahha,you make quite comical posts but again,with no basis.
I once proposed to buff necropolis because of their 7th tier creature being too expensive to get.Hey,I am evil now because I wanted more balance!
Hope you get my point
And necros,dungeon and inferno are evil.Some individuals can not make them good,right?
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