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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: What's wrong in Belgium...
Thread: What's wrong in Belgium... This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted April 24, 2008 07:09 PM

Quote:
That thing happen in almost everywhere in the world

Stop complaining in every thread, it is very rude.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted April 24, 2008 07:13 PM

Where else did he complain?
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.

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DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted April 24, 2008 07:17 PM

On H5 forum's, then he also spammed in maphaven.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted April 24, 2008 08:56 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 20:57, 24 Apr 2008.

I see BAD; BAD NURUL
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted April 27, 2008 11:02 AM
Edited by Nidhgrin at 11:05, 27 Apr 2008.

Food prices are on the rise, not to mention the cost for gas...
But it's a global phenomenon, due to the (mainly American) financial crisis.  One Euro's worth about 1.6 USD at the moment, what do you think that does to our export?  Next to that Europe's industry and logistics sector is heavily dependant on petrol, yet Europe hardly hauls any oil at all.  Due to that petrol costs are exponentially influencing the prices of consumer goods.

The region of Flanders is one of the wealthiest regions in the world, wheareas the southern part of Belgium is among the development areas in Europe.  Back in the days of the industrial revolution, that situation was reversed.  At that time it were the Wallons who had to financially invest in Flanders, and in the end it definitely payed.

Though it is normal that people turn to protectionism when they have more to lose, I think the current situation is bad for the social cohesion.  When we can't bring up the effort to help our Wallon neighbours out of the swamp, who will we turn to when Flanders would one day fall behind?

Belgium is a very good country to live in.  When I compare it with other countries I have visited (quite a few), I prefer living here far over anywhere else (spare a few areas in Germany perhaps).  Unfortunately the majority of people have voted for dusty grey conservative religious worms (now that's a mouth full ) like Yves Leterme.  An then wonder why things aren't going so well?  Come on... please  What ever happened with the good principle of separation of state and church?

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 27, 2008 11:57 AM

I understand your point Nidhgrin, but I think that as Wallonia gets a lot of money from Flanders (I forgot the precise numbers, I reckon it was about € 100.000.000) I'd still expect that they would give us something in return. If they still can't it allright, but they still have to shown some progress, otherwise the money had been given to them in vain. Don't forget that the PS, the most corrupt party in Wallonia, still Governs the region although they lost the elections last year. I'm not sure splitting Belgium is The best solution for the problem, but I do know that once it has been done we can't look back anymore. But if the Wallon government (THEY are the guilty ones) doesn't accept that Flanders has to get equal rights (yes, Wallonia is still dominant over Flanders) and refuses to acknowledge the rising separatist thinking lines, they will fall, and the Flanders independence will be speeded up.
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jormungand
jormungand


Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
posted August 03, 2008 03:58 PM

In belgium:
-Now at this very moment their is no government...
-Muslims are just invading us and they get money(from taxes) without working
-One political side(vlaams belang) could kick the muslims out(they are even getting more votes then other sides), but they still arent chosen because the other political sides form political pacts
  only in belgium is this possible!

Imo split belgium in flanders and wallonie
flanders the lion
____________
Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.

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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted August 03, 2008 04:42 PM
Edited by Nidhgrin at 16:46, 03 Aug 2008.

Hmm... ever heard of shades of grey?  Guess not

Anyway, we do have a federal government but it's a jig saw puzzle of many different little parties, who all want to score for their voters.
It's extremely difficult to make this work, especially when parties like NVA with more radical points of view are involved.
Personally I'm in favor of new elections, and I hope the catholics take some heavy blows.  All they've done so far is whine and mutter on about separating the electional regions around Brussels.
Who cares about that (the few thousands of people who live there aside), or would want to make it a top priority when necessary investments and fundings are put on hold, bringing organizations and firms into financial difficulties.

Muslims invading?  Are you experiencing serious problems with immigrants personally?
Honestly I think especially in Flanders (with 1,75 children per woman, which means the population is decreasing) we should be glad to have skilled newcomers migrate to our country.
Sad but true, immigrants do most if not all of the heavy, dangerous and dirty work (construction, assemblage, waste disposal, ...) in Belgium.  If they wouldn't take those jobs, who would?
Do you think it is easy for immigrants to find work here, having a different colour, and speaking broken Dutch or French (especially when they run into employers with your kind of attitude)?
Besides, most immigrants I know have a job.  Where do you get that information?

Unfortunately the democratic system allows un-democratic radical parties such as Vlaams Belang to take part in the elections.  VB has lost votes in the two past elections but they are still one of the biggest parties in Belgium.
It's sad that so many people fail to see through their over-simplified grotesque 'solutions' for problems.  Nazi Germany had simple solutions for everything too, just look at how far that got them today...

In the past Flanders was an underdeveloped region, and we got support from the Wallons for years.  Now the tables are turned, and it is only normal to display the same solidarity to the Southern part of our country.
That's how a federation works.  There have been a number of corrupt politicians, so in my opinion there should be more supervision on how the money is used, but which problem would separating Belgium solve exactly?
And perhaps more interesting, what benefit would it mean for you if Belgium were to be separated?

Flanders the lion... but a lion that kills his own kin, would soon be a lone lion.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted August 03, 2008 05:19 PM

I disagree with both of you.

@ Jormungand: You wish all muslims to part from Belgium? Actually that way of thinkings is scariliy familiar to Hitler's thinking of disposing the Jews. You also completely misunderstood the working of VB. They are not against muslims personally (unlike the Nazis), but they are against ISLAMIZATION, that is the Flemish/Belgian culture succumbing to a foreign one, in this case the Arab/Muslim one. That is what VB is against: Lots of mosques, selling halal-meat in grocery stores, arabic pamflets one window-panes so that the Arab population can understand what it says... these are all exapmles of the Growing Islamic population. VB isn't against Morrocan/Turkish immigrants, it's even in FAVOUR of such an immigration wave, only (and really only) if the immigrants ADAPT to our culture, SPEAK our laguage in public (what they do privately is none of Vb's concern). You misunderstood that part.

@Nidhgrin: You live in Ghent, where VB isn't strong at all and were people have little problems with immigrants. Thus I understand your misunderstanding of VB. I (I don't know your case) know a lot of politics and interest me in them, and often visit sites of political parites. Of what I've read on VB's site, I've seen absolutely NOTHING that makes them Fascists. NOTHING. They aren't even undemocratic. The SOLE reason why they're hated throughour Belgium (except in Antwerp and Bruges) is because they are SEPARATISTS WITH A BIG MOUNTH. They're talk is as radical as those of the NVA or the CD&V, only that the latter two use more tact to bring their polical ideas to the people. VB isn't tactfull, it's to-the-point and hates to ignore the troubles a country has (in their opinion). The Media (controlled by the Liberals and the Socialists) are sworn enemies of VB and don't hesitate when they have a chance of making VB look like an evil party. They aren't extreme-right. If you wish to see/hear a REAL Extreme-right person, google for Jean-Marie LePen.

I myself am neither Left- nor Rightwing and I wouldn't vote Vb in the first place. But both of you have an incorrect idea of the party, and i wanted to clear that out a bit.

Good day.
 

____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 03, 2008 05:20 PM

Quote:
Honestly I think especially in Flanders (with 1,75 children per woman, which means the population is decreasing) we should be glad to have skilled newcomers migrate to our country.
Because the immigrants are certainly skilled. [/sarcasm]
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted August 03, 2008 05:47 PM
Edited by Nidhgrin at 18:00, 03 Aug 2008.

Quote:

@Nidhgrin: You live in Ghent, where VB isn't strong at all and were people have little problems with immigrants. Thus I understand your misunderstanding of VB. I (I don't know your case) know a lot of politics and interest me in them, and often visit sites of political parites. Of what I've read on VB's site, I've seen absolutely NOTHING that makes them Fascists. NOTHING. They aren't even undemocratic. The SOLE reason why they're hated throughour Belgium (except in Antwerp and Bruges) is because they are SEPARATISTS WITH A BIG MOUNTH. They're talk is as radical as those of the NVA or the CD&V, only that the latter two use more tact to bring their polical ideas to the people. VB isn't tactfull, it's to-the-point and hates to ignore the troubles a country has (in their opinion). The Media (controlled by the Liberals and the Socialists) are sworn enemies of VB and don't hesitate when they have a chance of making VB look like an evil party. They aren't extreme-right. If you wish to see/hear a REAL Extreme-right person, google for Jean-Marie LePen.

I myself am neither Left- nor Rightwing and I wouldn't vote Vb in the first place. But both of you have an incorrect idea of the party, and i wanted to clear that out a bit.

Good day.
 


On November 14, 2004 Vlaams Blok was formally convicted of racism.  Since that time, they've changed the party's name, brushed up their programme and only rarely make radical statements in public.  The people behind the party are still the same though, and in person (or on communal level) they share the same radical ideas.

I don't know anyone in the party's higher echelon, but the people I know who are regional VB politicians are not exactly people I'd invite over for coffee

By the way, actually I moved back to the coast, close to the French border.  There is far more violence and theft here because of criminals from Northern France, than I've ever experienced in Ghent (and I was even mugged once there).  I know the problem is greater in Antwerp for instance, but so far VB has only convinced me of the fact that they are still an undemocratic party, without a proper solution for a complex problem.

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jormungand
jormungand


Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
posted August 03, 2008 06:30 PM

Quote:
I disagree with both of you.

@ Jormungand: You wish all muslims to part from Belgium? Actually that way of thinkings is scariliy familiar to Hitler's thinking of disposing the Jews. You also completely misunderstood the working of VB. They are not against muslims personally (unlike the Nazis), but they are against ISLAMIZATION, that is the Flemish/Belgian culture succumbing to a foreign one, in this case the Arab/Muslim one. That is what VB is against: Lots of mosques, selling halal-meat in grocery stores, arabic pamflets one window-panes so that the Arab population can understand what it says... these are all exapmles of the Growing Islamic population. VB isn't against Morrocan/Turkish immigrants, it's even in FAVOUR of such an immigration wave, only (and really only) if the immigrants ADAPT to our culture, SPEAK our laguage in public (what they do privately is none of Vb's concern). You misunderstood that part.

@Nidhgrin: You live in Ghent, where VB isn't strong at all and were people have little problems with immigrants. Thus I understand your misunderstanding of VB. I (I don't know your case) know a lot of politics and interest me in them, and often visit sites of political parites. Of what I've read on VB's site, I've seen absolutely NOTHING that makes them Fascists. NOTHING. They aren't even undemocratic. The SOLE reason why they're hated throughour Belgium (except in Antwerp and Bruges) is because they are SEPARATISTS WITH A BIG MOUNTH. They're talk is as radical as those of the NVA or the CD&V, only that the latter two use more tact to bring their polical ideas to the people. VB isn't tactfull, it's to-the-point and hates to ignore the troubles a country has (in their opinion). The Media (controlled by the Liberals and the Socialists) are sworn enemies of VB and don't hesitate when they have a chance of making VB look like an evil party. They aren't extreme-right. If you wish to see/hear a REAL Extreme-right person, google for Jean-Marie LePen.

I myself am neither Left- nor Rightwing and I wouldn't vote Vb in the first place. But both of you have an incorrect idea of the party, and i wanted to clear that out a bit.

Good day.
 



Most of the immigrants have no license to stay but still they stay
you cant deny they get money without working right
about islamisation: you're right but I'm too, because they dont adapt our culture
ok maybe a small part of them...
and you gave some nice examples about what they do
one flemish guy living in brussels(our capitol)? no!
do we build churches in overdrive in their country? no!
who is always reaching the news at TV(selfdestruction)? they!
____________
Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.

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jormungand
jormungand


Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
posted August 03, 2008 06:38 PM

Quote:

On November 14, 2004 Vlaams Blok was formally convicted of racism.  Since that time, they've changed the party's name, brushed up their programme and only rarely make radical statements in public.  The people behind the party are still the same though, and in person (or on communal level) they share the same radical ideas.

I don't know anyone in the party's higher echelon, but the people I know who are regional VB politicians are not exactly people I'd invite over for coffee

By the way, actually I moved back to the coast, close to the French border.  There is far more violence and theft here because of criminals from Northern France, than I've ever experienced in Ghent (and I was even mugged once there).  I know the problem is greater in Antwerp for instance, but so far VB has only convinced me of the fact that they are still an undemocratic party, without a proper solution for a complex problem.

1)True, but everything they said was true
2)Maybe, but I wont invite muslims or joelle for coffee
3)Immigrants of course, they are the problem...
____________
Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 03, 2008 07:01 PM

Immigrants are not bad as a whole, of course. But those that want to impose their beliefs upon others or leech off of welfare aren't. (Or ones that have come illegaly.) Europe has made a big mistake with its immigration policy. Doesn't mean that immigrants are bad, though.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted August 03, 2008 07:16 PM

Jormundgand, I believ that you've been influenced by others a bit.  You speak like a blind zealot, this is quite clear. and MOST importantly


Quote:
3)Immigrants of course, they are the problem...



They are THE Problem? Incorrect fella, thay are A problem, but not THE problem. You are blinded by your dislike (and maybe: hate?) and sometimes fail to see the other problems. Immigrants or allochtones aren't the reason the the political crisis, the economical downfall or the crazy law-system. it's the Walloon's that's are behind the crisis, it's the crisis that's behind the economical downfall and it's the left-wi,ng government that's behind the backward law-system. These are FACTS and NOT the fault of immigrants. They DO represent the vast majority (65%) of the criminals, which is a problem, but one that isn't as grave as the Crisis or the Economy.


____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 03, 2008 07:29 PM

"Immigrants are dragging our country down!"
"Immigrants aren't the problem, it's the Waloons!"
"No, it's the Flemish!"
"No, it's the downfall of our moral values. We need greater religious instruction in our schools!"
"No, it's all these religious whackos!"
"It's those atheist Commies!"
"It's those greedy Cons!"
Hitler: Who cares? Gas them all! We'll get the responsible group!

See where this attitude leads? There is more than one cause for the general problem. The problems are:
1. Bad immigration policies
2. Bad economic policies
3. Nationalism
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted August 03, 2008 07:55 PM
Edited by Nidhgrin at 19:56, 03 Aug 2008.

Quote:

Most of the immigrants have no license to stay but still they stay
you cant deny they get money without working right
about islamisation: you're right but I'm too, because they dont adapt our culture
ok maybe a small part of them...
and you gave some nice examples about what they do
one flemish guy living in brussels(our capitol)? no!
do we build churches in overdrive in their country? no!
who is always reaching the news at TV(selfdestruction)? they!

Quote:

1)True, but everything they said was true
2)Maybe, but I wont invite muslims or joelle for coffee
3)Immigrants of course, they are the problem...


First off, I worked for the VDAB for 7 years, so I have a pretty good idea about the employment situation in Flanders...
- Most of the immigrants have a work permit, or another legal permission to stay (for a period or permanently)
- Percentage wise among the total of unemployed people, (former) immigrants are indeed one of the mayor groups (the other three are 50+, disabled people, and school drop-outs.  It needs be said that unemployment is at its lowest point in years.  What is your problem?
- Have you ever been threatened by actions of moslims?  Do you even know the basics of what Islam really means, or are you just afraid of something you don't know?
- I considered living in Brussels since I worked there for more than 7 years, but I found the rent way too high.  Quite a number of (Flemish) colleagues lived in or around Brussels.  The real Brusseliens speak Dutch and French by the way...
- How do mosques pose a threat to us?  Esthetically, I think churches are just as ugly as mosques.  Personally I'd cut heavily in funding for any religious group, but luckily for religious people I'm not politically active
- Everything they said was true?  The solutions Vlaams Belang presents sound powerful and good because they're so simple.  Reality is that it's very easy to bring up solutions like that if you know beforehand they will never have to be implemented.  Because of this, they don't have to worry whether their solution would actually work in the field, would cause juridical problems or conflict with international law...  Point is, complex situations need a complex approach.
- Immigrants of course, they are the problem...  I suggest you read this.  At leasts I am offended by this kind of unfounded black and white statements.  This is no way to debate.

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jormungand
jormungand


Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
posted August 03, 2008 09:03 PM

If they just would give VB a chance, instead of bombing them with cordon sanitaires

____________
Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.

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jormungand
jormungand


Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
posted August 03, 2008 09:06 PM

I dont like churches and aint religious(never go to church, if I do I make paper airplanes of the bible), but its just an example of islamisation.
____________
Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 03, 2008 09:12 PM

Quote:
I dont like churches and aint religious(never go to church, if I do I make paper airplanes of the bible), but its just an example of islamisation.
Lol, just lol. "Islamisation"?
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