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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Heroes of Might & Magic III: Horn of the Abyss
Thread: Heroes of Might & Magic III: Horn of the Abyss [ This thread is 99 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 (29) 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 ]
Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 24, 2012 10:05 AM

So, one group of modders decided to enrcypt their work so no one could use (or improve) it, and now the other wants to decrypt it to finish their work against their will?
Guys, don't you have anything better to do?


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SquigPie
SquigPie


Adventuring Hero
posted April 24, 2012 10:13 AM

I just want an english version.

Releasing the mod in Russian only kinda locks out most of the fans.
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 24, 2012 10:18 AM

I believe this could be done by dialog, not yet another war between modders. I believe HoTA team would accept help in translation is only you asked nicely.

In fact, I believe every modder should accept help from other people who want to support the project. But maybe I'm different.
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SquigPie
SquigPie


Adventuring Hero
posted April 24, 2012 10:22 AM

Well, I agree.
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Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 24, 2012 10:39 AM

 I would translate without asking.
 When we are talking about modding third-party product, the whole released content automatically becomes public domain in terms of usage (keeping credits to original authors of course). By the way, the Tournament Edition (T1.exe) executable has originally CRC checks and Era started it existence after disabling most of those checks (to say the truth, I missed few of them and corrected the code only after obtaining the sources).

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zombie_knight
zombie_knight


Adventuring Hero
posted April 24, 2012 01:48 PM

I am still waiting for english version.

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lonelywolf
lonelywolf

Tavern Dweller
posted April 24, 2012 04:31 PM

i think they gave up, we have not heard anywords or any update about new releases or english version, it cant take that long too translate it.

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Karen
Karen


Adventuring Hero
posted April 25, 2012 12:21 AM

I can't say anything in Russian forum(df2).
So I have no idea for translation.

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
subiroK ot għicosutak
posted April 27, 2012 10:08 AM

Quote:
it cant take that long too translate it.

Yes, it can. Wanna try?
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave

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lonelywolf
lonelywolf

Tavern Dweller
posted April 28, 2012 11:08 AM

Quote:
Quote:
it cant take that long too translate it.

Yes, it can. Wanna try?


sorry dont know russian

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majaczek
majaczek


Famous Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
posted April 29, 2012 09:11 AM

Quote:
Quote:
All names are hardcoded into exe file.

No, mostly encrypted in .dat file. Hex-editor will be useless.


I would disagree - not enCRYPTED but enCODED. It really looks it's english forum. All latin characters are in ascii which describes first part of one-byte char types. Since I am leader and manager of translation some Gothic II mod from russian to my native language I had those problems behind me. Simply download russian editor Bred3 and set encoding to Cyrylica. You will see it correctly. (there are about 3 common encodings for russia so if I guessed wrong try other two associated with russsian).

It looks like nonsence or chineese characters? well each language has default encoding which is sometimes forced to be used (if you don't use utf8 encoding the encodings are different). When people from china/japan read text from russia/other_european it seems like a sentence in sylabic-characters which is readable but it seems read pure nonsence or just funny. It were called Mojibake (for more references use Wikipedia).

And not I'm not a troll per se, however my behaviour may be percieved as it would be that. I'm not most obvious troll since the person who told it is more obviously trolling (it seems a fact but I don't know why he behaved so). There post were not removed by moderators while mine I believe was more ontopic (okay still not enough). It seems I haven't collected enough facts before trying to rephrase, but much of the orignal HoTA post is demagogy, and sadly people doesn't see it even if drastically pointed. Refer to difference between "free" and "free of charge" which is substantial for example. Stopping the footnote to not be percieved as offtopist.

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Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 29, 2012 09:15 AM

Encrypted. I found the crypt procedure, but did not spend time on its reverse engineering. Mostly XOR-ing with some complex checks.

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majaczek
majaczek


Famous Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
posted April 29, 2012 09:35 AM
Edited by majaczek at 09:50, 29 Apr 2012.

Quote:
Encrypted. I found the crypt procedure, but did not spend time on its reverse engineering. Mostly XOR-ing with some complex checks.


Really HoTA are hiding it so badly? if it were all characters >128 it seems it would be most common russian encoding. There's one uncommon which is incomaptible with ASCII (so perhaps you refer to it?), and two merely common which is DOS/ANSI based (so compatible fully with ascii). It seems there exist some easy math rules to change one russian encoding into another (since they are a bit similair). Still there's a chance they used exotic encoding or even XOR crypting. Tried opening them in Bred3? (It's easier to force russian encoding in it than in for example Notepad++).

So if they really crypted it they are impudent saying HoTA is free (as for freedom). Linux and ERA are free (the mechanics is transparent and you are even encouraged to do modifications) while HoTA is only free of charge as Windows from MSDNAA platform (it changed the name lately) or even less because most of microsoft executabless are not crypted (so there exist some modded dlls mostly for interface - still it's hacking but only a problem of missing sourcecode not forced incompability). To people who still don't understand: if HoTA would be really free (not only beeing a market term fluff) it would be something similair (not nessccarile exactly same) to ERA plugin allowing to add any new town via text tables and LODs and optional mods for each town which would use the marvelous thing as a base. I don't like fighting, and if HoTA clearly agree they base on WoG (not neccesarily whole one but much of work on it) and actually wanted freedom not splendor, so for example moving to form of ERA mods/plugins which would be better for modders and players (but less splendor to HoTA main crew, does it hurt so much?) I could agree and apreciate agreement and even forgive most of dirty tricks they used like many market positioning groups/companies.

Please not say that I'm again offtopic?

EDIT: And beeing digged in executable instead using plugins is not a proof - MoP already base on ERA, but also use many different approaches so it is not fully compatible with ERA (some plugins would work but most important ones were integrated into exe so not compatible with standalone versions).

EDIT: I tried. It is not exactly text file encoded so bred understand it. It is not gz or lzma. So it perhaps use some custom format or crypted. This is freedom?

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don_komandorr
don_komandorr


Known Hero
posted April 29, 2012 11:14 AM

Oh no, Majaczek, you know to much! Now I have no other choice... BUZZZzzzzz. Okay, now back to accomplishing our plan to world domination! :Kastore-grin:

but seriously, term "free" means that the product can be distributed for free. The data can be stored and coded the way developers want. They are obliged to nobody. If somebody is clever enough to decipher and change the data... Good for him, Hota crew has no intention to pursuit that person. The team has no claims.

The main reason of encoding is simple - Because it is how it was from the times of long ago. Till it can be used for accomplishing goals team sees no reason to change the current system (changing will take time. A lot of time!) There is plan for changing system to easy-usable one, but the plan is far in the future. Team has more important things on the schedule. But transporting add-on on ERA is planning.


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OxFEA
OxFEA


Promising
Famous Hero
feanor on DF2.ru
posted April 29, 2012 01:44 PM

Quote:
Simply download russian editor Bred3 and set encoding to Cyrylica.

Oh, yes, I really need to know how does Cyrillic symbols look - I doesn't use them for eighteen years.

Also, I saw Hota sources.

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majaczek
majaczek


Famous Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
posted April 29, 2012 02:34 PM
Edited by majaczek at 14:38, 29 Apr 2012.

Nope don Commandor. It's called "Free of charge". Free is more thing. Or it was just your mistake translating to English? if so fix it. If not it is not free - it hasn't any element of freedom separate of "free of charge". Since you really want to move to era, I'll stop my rush. Or it was just a joke on your side?

0xFEA ... ahh I already edited the post which mentioned that my guess failed. No reason to repeat. It was better to try, but I didn't believed  HoTA were so closed (opposite of free/open).

Free is from freedom - you may freely use it. Totally free of charge is definately less than Totally free.

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SquigPie
SquigPie


Adventuring Hero
posted April 29, 2012 02:45 PM

I have no idea what you just said.
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 29, 2012 02:48 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 14:50, 29 Apr 2012.

Oh, enslaved minds, you have no idea what free software means

Still, I agree that this kind of definition may be a novelty.
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Sav
Sav


Adventuring Hero
posted April 30, 2012 04:31 AM
Edited by Sav at 05:28, 30 Apr 2012.

Quote:
Or it was just a joke on your side?

No, it isn't a joke. From one of the next versions (not from 1.1, the closest one) HotA will be based on Era. But the only benefit of it for users will be potential compatibility with some WoG scripts and Era plugins (of course, not all plugins will be compatible with HotA because they can modify the same H3 code and data).

It will be no mechanism for simple adding towns to HotA in near future. It's much harder to make such mechanism than to add town to the game. And HotA was never presented as the base for modding as Era. HotA is only gameplay and iterface modification. It's intended to play, not to modify. We won't prohibit one to modify it but we are not obliged to help him with modification in any way and if he can't get success in in doing with HotA something that HotA isn't intended to he should't blame us.

According to the article from Warmonger's link HotA really isn't totally free because it is not open source etc. Ok. There is no word "free" in the first post of this thread. HotA is developing not to give someone some freedom, but to make him able to play Heroes III with a new town. If someone don't want to play with a new town but want some freedom - he is free to develop his own project as he wants and he should let us develop HotA as we want. "Totally free" is better than "free of charge", ok, but "free of charge" is good enough to be exist and developed, isn't it?
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Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 30, 2012 06:53 AM

Quote:
potential compatibility

Why potential? Majaczek proposed nice idea for solving structures redirection problem. Era 2.2 will export two procedures to register block redirection (say, 887768H..887800 => 301200...) and to obtain real address by nominal address. I think that would be quite enough for most plugins to be compatible.

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