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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: On the subject of Assault.
Thread: On the subject of Assault. This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted June 18, 2008 04:36 PM
Edited by del_diablo at 16:36, 18 Jun 2008.

On the subject of Assault.

If you get assaulted, what laws will hinder/allow you to do what?
And what is your personal opinion on the subject?

Here in Norway you only got the rigth to run for 60-70 meters, if the assaulter is still after you...... you got the rigth to defend yourself and hurt the bastard.

My opinion is that you should have the full rigth to harm/wound anybody assaulting you in self-defence. If somebody with a weapon attacks, you should be allowed to kill the person due its a armed assault.

Discuzz

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 18, 2008 04:44 PM

Quote:
My opinion is that you should have the full rigth to harm/wound anybody assaulting you in self-defence. If somebody with a weapon attacks, you should be allowed to kill the person due its a armed assault.
Maybe you should, but then you could twist it in your favor -- you want to kill someone, you trick him, make it look like it assaulted you, and bang.. I don't think it's necessarily ok. And 'assault' is also quite a loose term.

Maybe we'll get into the: "His smoke bothered me so I had to kill him!" sooner or later

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted June 18, 2008 04:52 PM

Be careful not to confuse assault with battery.  I don't have a lot of time to get into this, but assault is an attempt to batter or intent to put a person in fear of an immediate battery.  Battery is the intended harmful or offensive contact with another.  

Self-defense needs to be proportionate.  If someone pulls a gun on you, you can shoot them.  If they raise their fists, you can't shoot them.  As to the duty to retreat, it varies from state to state.  Some states require a person to retreat before resorting to force.  In Michigan, we allow victims to hold their ground.  Additionally, you have no duty to retreat in your home.  If anyone tries to harm you in your home, self-defense is always appropriate.  
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted June 18, 2008 04:53 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 16:54, 18 Jun 2008.

In Belgium, we have "the law of balance" or something, stating that you're not allowed to harm anyone more than what he does/ threatens to do to you.

If someone punches you, no shooting, just act out of self-defense(punch 'n retreat). Even if someone's in your house, uninvited, no killing. If someone steals, no killing. You are only allowed to defend your own body. Well, that's what the teacher said at the self-defense course to clarify that  you can't break/ dislocate someone's arm 'cus he grabs your wrist/ hair.

So we're far away from killing someone 'cus his smoke disturbs me.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted June 18, 2008 04:56 PM

Quote:
Self-defense needs to be proportionate.  If someone pulls a gun on you, you can shoot them.  If they raise their fists, you can't shoot them.
So if he smokes, we should smoke back as well?
I don't know if the eye-for-an-eye works that well, although I do agree that you need the chance to kill him in dire cases (or at least hurt him and paralyze him).

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted June 18, 2008 04:57 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 16:58, 18 Jun 2008.

That's common law self-defense for you.  I certainly think it's appropriate to use deadly force against someone who goes out of their way to threaten me with it.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
posted June 18, 2008 05:00 PM

The line between morals and ethics?
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted June 18, 2008 05:17 PM

Quote:
The line between morals and ethics?


Depends on the state or country.

But assault in my definition(it could be inaccurate to the english counterpart):
*Somebody attacks/(holds you down) to hurt/rob a person.
*Rape is tecnically assault, but much worse.

And what good does it do if you cannot stop anybody from robbing your house? I think the law of balance lacks the idea of robbing, because you NEED to be able to remove somebody of YOU OWN property and cause the least harm possible. However if the person is attempting to take your property or carrying weapon, 100% law supported damaging.
Atleast that is my opinion
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antipaladin
antipaladin


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posted June 18, 2008 05:52 PM

in israel there is no differnce between asult and batery,but,the line between asult and attempt murder is also quite thin.
When some is assulted,meaning ussaly unseccful attempted murder,there is retalition.
Untill someone finishes it peacefully.
to survive you gota have 'balls'. Never fear to throw the first punch ,but always try finding an alternative.
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 18, 2008 06:20 PM

In Sweden you can use violence if:

1. If someone uses violence/threatens against you or against your property.
2. If someone tries to steal something from your house with violence.
3. If someone has breaked in in a house, farm, room or boat without permission.
4. If someone refuses to leave your house.

Its illegal to use more violence then nescessary if someone does one of these four things.
And you cant use so dangerous violence against somebody so that he/she cant defend him/herself.
Also you cant use more violence then the person who attacks you uses.

However in some cases you dont need to go to prison (althoug the prisons in Sweden are great and very nice and good) if you have used violence against someone that cant defend themself.
But only if its REALLY nescessary.

Also you cant kill somebody -.- thats just too babaric for a country that has been in peace for +200 years.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted June 18, 2008 06:21 PM

Quote:
(althoug the prisons in Sweden are great and very nice and good)


wtf?

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Asheera
Asheera


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Elite Assassin
posted June 18, 2008 06:26 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Self-defense needs to be proportionate.  If someone pulls a gun on you, you can shoot them.  If they raise their fists, you can't shoot them.
So if he smokes, we should smoke back as well?
I don't know if the eye-for-an-eye works that well, although I do agree that you need the chance to kill him in dire cases (or at least hurt him and paralyze him).

I like the eye-for-an-eye approach, but there should also be additional stuff that influence other people negatively taken into consideration, such as smoking.
If he smokes, you shouldn't smoke back but rather tell him you don't like it. If he refuses to stop then you should report this to someone or give him a warning (like a small punch). Note however that you can't order someone to stop smoking in their own house (or every property he has). If it is your own house though I think you should be *allowed* to kick him (though not deadly) if he's such an arrogant person.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted June 18, 2008 06:58 PM

Quote:
Quote:
(althoug the prisons in Sweden are great and very nice and good)


wtf?


Do you hang out at a lot of prisons or something, Xerox?
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


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What if Elvin was female?
posted June 18, 2008 07:08 PM

The prisons in Nordic countries are just like a regular house except that you can't leave.

Quote:
give him a warning (like a small punch)


That isn't a warning that is an assault. If someone's smoking disturbs you and if it isn't against the law or against housing regulations there is nothing you can do about it.

I should add that if you have done self-defence and end up in court because of an assault against you any damage to the assaulter or more than one punch will get you an almost sure sentence or fines and a kick out from the SF club.
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Asheera
Asheera


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posted June 18, 2008 07:20 PM

Quote:
That isn't a warning that is an assault. If someone's smoking disturbs you and if it isn't against the law or against housing regulations there is nothing you can do about it.

I should add that if you have done self-defence and end up in court because of an assault against you any damage to the assaulter or more than one punch will get you an almost sure sentence or fines and a kick out from the SF club.

I know. My post was meant as how I would like it to be, not how it is.
But that's just my opinion, probably doesn't matter anyway.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


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What if Elvin was female?
posted June 18, 2008 07:36 PM

Not unless you happen to rule a country.
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Spectrum
Spectrum


Famous Hero
Plan B
posted June 18, 2008 08:37 PM

Eye for an eye, eh? So the only situation where use of deadly force is accepted is when someone has already killed you?

Anyway, I think one should be allowed to use the amount of force one feels is necessary to protect oneself, no more. Simple enough in theory, impossible to make work in a legal system, I know.
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Asheera
Asheera


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Elite Assassin
posted June 18, 2008 08:51 PM

Quote:
Eye for an eye, eh? So the only situation where use of deadly force is accepted is when someone has already killed you?

It sounds like that doesn't it?
Ok then, I think that you should be allowed to defend yourself from a killer with whatever means necessary. For example if someone TRIES to kill you then you should be *allowed* to kill him (sometimes it's not necessary). Also my opinion about killers is that they should be killed because THEY FIRST killed a person. Why do we have to be tolerant with such animals (no offense to animals)? Ok, IF and ONLY IF he is really sorry for the crime (and is not lying) then let him live in prison, but otherwise what's the point? Not to mention that some prisoners are a danger to the society even when imprisoned (when they escape or hijack the transporting vehicle that is supposed to transfer them to another prison). Also, I've seen movies where terrorists hold some hostages in exchange for a prisoner's freedom. If that prisoner would have been killed none of this would have happened.

Besides, why there is an execution-law? And why it's only when you kill a lot of people (such as 50)? Who decides where this barrier for execution/imprisonment is? My opinion is that all criminals should be killed, not just the ones this broken law considers dangerous.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 18, 2008 09:14 PM

Quote:
Also my opinion about killers is that they should be killed because THEY FIRST killed a person.
I don't know if fighting fire with fire is the best solution to that -- we may certainly be closing to them.

Quote:
Why do we have to be tolerant with such animals (no offense to animals)?
Because we pretend we are better than them. If we start to kill for whatever we think is ok (such as defending ourselves) in the same manner as they do for whatever they think is ok (whatever the reason), we'll most likely not be any better. Remember that 'defend' is also quite a loose term -- criminals might imply that they defended themselves when killing (such as "I hate women and I defended myself from their looks" psycho type of guy). We usually have some defend terms defined but they are what 'we' consider (usually physical pain or property).

But fighting fire with fire is not the best solution, especially when used in all areas IMO.

Quote:
My opinion is that all criminals should be killed, not just the ones this broken law considers dangerous.
Especially those that are innocent, but nevertheless 'proven' guilty

I'm actually against execution by e.g: electric chair -- for me it's a very savage method of dealing with a problem. If you want to kill him, do it fast, shoot him in the head. Why do we have to inflict on them the things they do on us? At least, if we call ourselves 'better' than them.

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Asheera
Asheera


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Elite Assassin
posted June 18, 2008 09:17 PM
Edited by Asheera at 21:22, 18 Jun 2008.

Quote:
Especially those that are innocent, but nevertheless 'proven' guilty

Sorry I was lazy to repeat myself, but here's a quote of mine:
Quote:
IF and ONLY IF he is really sorry for the crime (and is not lying) then let him live in prison

And he would surely be sorry if he didn't even commit it

Yeah, I know, how can we find out if he's not lying... Well, as Spectrum said:
Quote:
Simple enough in theory, impossible to make work in a legal system, I know.


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