|
| Thread: Would H3 profit from caravans? (not exactly working in the fashion of H4 or H5) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
baklajan
Adventuring Hero
|
posted June 22, 2008 10:18 PM |
|
|
Poll Question:
Would H3 profit from caravans? (not exactly working in the fashion of H4 or H5)
The question is very simple and is of a great importance to me.
Would it be more convenient to add Caravan buildings to H3 towns or it's more of a fun killer than a boost in ergonomics?
Saying 'caravan', I mean a building in each town that simply collects all the wild populations from player-controlled dwellings on the map and places these recruits in the common recruit pool each Monday.
By 'recruits' I mean simply creatures available for hire, not already bought ones.
A caravan would only collect a population from a remote dwelling if a dwelling of the same type is available in the town of destination.
For example, to collect a weekly population of Liches from a Mausoleum which I flagged on the map, the target town must be a Necropolis with a Mausoleum built.
To collect a weekly population of Ogres, the town must be a Stronghold with an ogre fort to be able to accomodate the ogre recruits from the remote ogre fort.
Thus a town can't traffick in creatures of a different town type or from a dwelling that doesn't have a counterpart in this town built yet.
All the creatures are delivered on Mondays and are stacked with the regular recruit pool in the town dwellings, from which they can be further bought.
|
|
kesnar
Famous Hero
from Kesnaria
|
posted June 22, 2008 10:31 PM |
|
|
Well it's a good idea but it would totally change the gameplay, so NO
____________
|
|
spartak
Hired Hero
|
|
posted June 22, 2008 10:52 PM |
|
Edited by spartak at 22:55, 22 Jun 2008.
|
|
I shall simply express: against
|
|
tobagua
Hired Hero
|
|
posted June 22, 2008 10:53 PM |
|
|
|
Yes, why not? Creatures from the remote dwellings still cost money, and players still do their best to buy those in multiplayer games. So if everybody buys them all anyway, caravans will only save a lot of time in multiplayer games. The faster turns go, the bigger is fun. No fun at all herding a dozen or two 'recruit collector' heroes!!
|
|
E-J
Known Hero
|
|
posted June 22, 2008 11:15 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Yes, why not? Creatures from the remote dwellings still cost money, and players still do their best to buy those in multiplayer games. So if everybody buys them all anyway, caravans will only save a lot of time in multiplayer games. The faster turns go, the bigger is fun. No fun at all herding a dozen or two 'recruit collector' heroes!!
i agree!
|
|
hippocamus
Hired Hero
|
|
posted June 22, 2008 11:15 PM |
|
|
|
Against caravans in baklajan's variant.
|
|
TheUnknown
Known Hero
|
|
posted June 23, 2008 01:33 AM |
|
|
I would add that if that feature is implemented, then the default +1 growth that is added from the dwelling should be disabled. I would like this change as it decreases the need of a hero around every creature dwelling and also is in favor to the non logistics heroes and the low level creatures.
I would like to suggest making the price lower in the dwellings so it would still be worth buying creatures from the dwelling. Something like the upgrades are better if you upgrade on the map building rather then in your own town.
|
|
doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
|
|
posted December 29, 2008 05:58 PM |
|
|
re:
Yes, but wich one will be the target town, if You have more?
+1 for removing extra population in Towns. At least for lvl6-7. How You will do it?
The other possiblity would be to transfer creatures to selected Town after buying them out. I'm writing this option.
|
|
Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 29, 2008 06:00 PM |
|
|
@dood3d: Ever looked at the date of the last post?
Do you want it as a WoGify script?
I'm personatly against, but what's one script?
____________
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted December 29, 2008 07:58 PM |
|
|
Nothing ruins gameplay more than having to move additional heroes from one dwelling to another collecting troops over and over again.
____________
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted December 29, 2008 08:06 PM |
|
|
please,just stop ressurecting old threads. oh, yes, and posting half baked ideas too
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
|
|
posted January 07, 2009 08:01 PM |
|
|
re:
Quote:
please,just stop ressurecting old threads. oh, yes, and posting half baked ideas too
I just didn't wanted to create a new thread for my Caravans script.
My script:
Every town will have 7 caravan leaders to transfer buyed creatures from dwellings to Towns, and also between towns at a speed around 15 tiles/day. Maximum number of creatures will be 999.
You will not need a hero to buy them out.
Caravans on the way are stored in a bitfield.
Caravan variable with subvariables: 3bit owner color, 8bit creature type, 10 bit quantity, 3 bit timer and 8 bit rounded experience, 32 bit in total. Caravans will not transfer warlord's banner (it would require an additional 3 bit). Used variables: v3644-v3980.
This bitfield will be handled by my bitwise packer library, avalaible at doom3d.uw.hu, WoGmod build 10.
Actually Caravans is in alfa stage, and there are some open points about AI support, but I think it will be finished one day.
I hope that this script isn't half baked. 
|
|
Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2009 08:04 PM |
|
|
Is it a WoGify script or just an *.ERM document?
____________
|
|
doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
|
|
posted January 11, 2009 02:07 PM |
|
Edited by doom3d at 13:47, 24 Jan 2009.
|
It will be option 330 of WoG 3.59, but will be avalaible as a mod for 3.58f(+script update). erm+ert+ers file, with language switch support.
** update **
Please, share your ideas about AI support. It's very hard to predict where the AI will need troops, and also hard to tell the AI that caravans will arrive.. (actually impossible) 
I didived the script into the following moduls:
1. creating caravans from town
2. handling arrived caravans by player
3. creating caravans from dwelling
4. caravan moving algorithm (approx. 15 tiles/day, half day for map level change)
5. AI support
Modul 1 is almost done. From here I can copy most of the code for modul 3. Modul 4 is easy, the idea is clear. I will solve modul 2, but have to think over the last one. So, any idea?
|
|
doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
|
|
posted January 30, 2009 06:34 PM |
|
|
@Father
Hello,
OK, it would introduce game balance issues. Yes, Dungeon would become less powerful this way. I would like to handle this, but I need help from more experienced gamers.
I may increase weekly creature growth for Dungeon, if the Portal is built in that town. Let say, I could double the number of harpies.
So what do You think? Is it ok to add extra creature growth for the portal? Wich creature do You propose? How many extra creatures would be ok?
On the other hand, Caravans would not speed up the main army(s), only the collector heroes. BTW, there will be a script in 3.59, wich will autocollect resources from windmills and gardens.
I am opened to discuss any game balancing ideas.
|
|
Paulemile
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 31, 2009 09:45 PM |
|
|
Anyway : the Portal allows to get creatures instantly, the caravans wouldn't permitt this. Yes, it renders the building less important, but still more powerful than the caravans.
Rather than increase dwellings population, i'd prefer strengthen up this Portal of Summoning : let the player choose which external dwelling will be linked to the portal for the current week...
Another idea, the creatures coming from the portal would cost less gold.
There's still some ways to keep the caravans without rendering the Dungeon useless
Concerning the automatic resource gathering from windmills, water wheels... etc. This would be extremely helpful and welcome.
The main thing that still makes me upset in H3 is : hire 2 or 3 heroes, just in order to collect resources and creatures from external dwellings.
Just keep up this promising work !!
|
|
doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
|
|
posted February 10, 2009 07:00 PM |
|
|
H3 Caravans- script 130 preview
15% of script is ready. It may be finished this year.
|
|
ZombieBear
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 12, 2009 09:43 PM |
|
|
I'm against the notion that WoG HAS to imbalance H3. It doesn't; not if you choose settings correctly, and I think HotA sees both the good and the bad about WoG and that is important. The 'Rebalanced Creatures' option for example fixes a lot of imbalance issues from before. Yes, there were things that did imbalance the game like Stack Experience and such, so I don't play with it, but when done right WoG really improves the game.
I'm also against the notion that Dungeon's portal makes them 'more powerful.' All it does is buy a creature from ONE dwelling; and if you own more than one dwelling of your type, you really don't know what's coming your way.
When talking about caravans, I'm assuming that external dwellings are so the creatures produced every week stack, rather than being reset, so that if you go three weeks until revisiting said dwelling, you would receive the full amount. i.e. Dread Knights grow by 2 per week in an external dwelling. Going three weeks before visiting will yield 6 DK's, rather than just 2 still.
So assuming that, I think the caravan should be a separate building built inside your town. You click on it and the page shown would be a list. This list would cascade in level order of units, and only your unit type could be purchased with the advantage of the caravan. (any dwellings you own of units not your type you will still have to go collect with a hero)
The REASON for a list, say, as opposed to a separate Castle/Citadel/Fort style page is because mainly this would just be easier to program. You can only fit 8 on a Castle style page. The list allows for all dwellings to be accessed WITHOUT stacking, also making it easier for coding. Purchased units would show up in town 3 days after your purchase, and of course if your town was too full by the time the creatures get there, they merely stay in the dwelling. (but you still lose the Gold you paid for them) Relatively easy to code, and hey, that's the price for not being more organized. Also of course Mythril upgrades upgrade what's purchasable in the caravan.
Caravans were something I've wanted in H3 ever since I saw them in H4, especially back in the dark days when dwellings would reset every week. Caravans would shorten turns a little, reward you with what is rightfully yours, and make it a little easier to defend your towns. All around an upgrading in playability. I don't see how this could take anything away from your Heroes experience or fun or strategy. Because there's a line between strategic movement on the field, and the redundancy of hiring 8 garbage heroes merely to collect who could just get killed by an enemy hero anyway.
I suggest the caravan building cost something like 10 Wood, 10 Ore, 5 of your town type's resource, and 7500 G. This is a fair price when you consider the 2500(every hero bought).
|
|
doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
|
|
posted February 13, 2009 06:09 PM |
|
Edited by doom3d at 21:01, 24 Feb 2009.
|
re:
Quote:
When talking about caravans, I'm assuming that external dwellings are so the creatures produced every week stack, rather than being reset, so that if you go three weeks until revisiting said dwelling, you would receive the full amount.
This is a separate WoG option. Yes, caravans are more useful if this option is ON.
Quote:
So assuming that, I think the caravan should be a separate building built inside your town. You click on it and the page shown would be a list. This list would cascade in level order of units, and only your unit type could be purchased with the advantage of the caravan. (any dwellings you own of units not your type you will still have to go collect with a hero) ...
Purchased units would show up in town 3 days after your purchase, and of course if your town was too full by the time the creatures get there, they merely stay in the dwelling. (but you still lose the Gold you paid for them) ...
I suggest the caravan building cost something like 10 Wood, 10 Ore, 5 of your town type's resource, and 7500 G. This is a fair price when you consider the 2500(every hero bought).
I have choosen a different solution: You can click on the external dwelling, buy creatures there without a hero, and send them to your town. Even creatures not avalaible in that town.
The caravan will not be visible on the map.Time of travel will depend on distance between dwelling and target town. If there is no free slot, then they will appear near to the town as friendly neutral monsters.
Actually I'm only a scriptwriter, don't know how to add buildings to Town. But, the number of allowed caravans per town may depend on the presence of town hall/citadel/castle. Don't know if You like this idea?
Quote:
Caravans were something I've wanted in H3 ever since I saw them in H4, especially back in the dark days when dwellings would reset every week. Caravans would shorten turns a little, reward you with what is rightfully yours, and make it a little easier to defend your towns. All around an upgrading in playability. I don't see how this could take anything away from your Heroes experience or fun or strategy. Because there's a line between strategic movement on the field, and the redundancy of hiring 8 garbage heroes merely to collect who could just get killed by an enemy hero anyway.
 Thanks. I'm going back to scripting.
UPDATE: 
UPDATE2:
You can select the language of my script messages:
I have eliminated a bug, and finished distance checking:
Actually, I have decreased caravan speed to test "out of range" message, but it was easy:
Now part 1 of script is almost done and cleaned up.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted February 24, 2009 09:09 PM |
|
|
Thank you for bringing WoG to a higher level. At least me is looking forward this thread with much interest.
Good luck in your work.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
| |
|
|
