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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Races vs. Themes
Thread: Races vs. Themes This thread is 24 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 ... 20 21 22 23 24 · «PREV / NEXT»
zazu1
zazu1


Adventuring Hero
Makes Sense
posted July 03, 2008 08:53 PM

Quote:
Now, I like the fact than in H4 and H5, every creature is different and has different special abilities. That needs to stay.


Well yea, obvi.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 04, 2008 01:37 AM

I completly agree. Makes the game much funnier. In the previous games (atleast pre-H4) there were almost no abilities at all and it became very boring. I also though it was strange since there "was so many diffrent monsters".
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted July 04, 2008 12:30 PM

Quote:
I completly agree. Makes the game much funnier. In the previous games (atleast pre-H4) there were almost no abilities at all and it became very boring. I also though it was strange since there "was so many diffrent monsters".


I actually like that, it made som upgrades soo much hardcore. And it went to a basic, image War3 with all units running around with all specal passive and active skills...... it would be a uber mess.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted July 04, 2008 02:30 PM

Quote:
We obviously play games for completely different reasons.  Honestly before I joined these forums I didn't even know that many people really played the campaign.
This is one of your problems understanding me. Games are today not only restricted to the "unrealistic" arcade-games genres -- they are pretty much realistic, and fantasy requires a good story. In fact, some movies have even been made from games -- how do you expect to make a serious movie from Mario?

Games, and fantasy (which Heroes is), require a story and need to be somewhat credible -- not a random soup of creatures, Heroes is not an arcade genre.

You don't necessarily have to know the story. And besides, for me it's much interesting to play games (not CAMPAIGN) if they are credible, because I can use my imagination to make it realistic or fantasy-like. You see, not everyone sees multiple random creatures as fun, even in multiplayer.

I for example, HATE the random soup, not only for the story, but also for multiplayer. You have somewhat defined the "fun" factor that everyone wants to play arcade games. Not everyone plays only Mario-type games! Heroes is a different genre, it has a different "fun" factor. What about horror-games? Those have a "fun" factor too. What about "adventure-story" games? Those have a "fun" factor too. What about "RPG" games? Those have a "fun" factor too. Not only Mario-type games have a fun factor!.

Heroes is a "fantasy" game -- it has a fun factor different than Mario, and I prefer it. Just because Mario is fun doesn't mean a different genre is not or less fun

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
of nastiness
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 04, 2008 03:22 PM

You do know that there's a Super Mario Brothers movie, right?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted July 04, 2008 03:23 PM

I said serious movie

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 04, 2008 04:06 PM

Quote:
I for example, HATE the random soup, not only for the story, but also for multiplayer.
I don't like random soup either. But can you name one town that had random soup?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted July 04, 2008 04:25 PM

What had the Harpy got to do in Dungeon?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 04, 2008 04:35 PM

It's a foul thing, so it goes with all the other foul things in Dungeon. It's an underground flying humanoid.
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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted July 04, 2008 04:41 PM

One important thing to note is that a faction's lineup are only the army: it doesn't say anything about what the rest of the faction is like economicly and politicly like.

H3 Fortress wasn't a town controlled by beasts, it was run by primairily lizardmen and to a lesser extent gnolls. Fact is only, in their army lineup, they used a lot of beasts - hence I don't agree with Alcibiades on that point


Basing an entire army lineup only on one race, that's plain retarded if there are more than enough interesting mythology and fantasy creatures to fill the spot. Sylvan's tier 2 unit is a good example of this, as are a lot of H5 Fortress' units. Dungeon's Blood fury is nothing but a cheap replacement of the harpy to suit the more "race based" idea more.


H5 ruined a great deal of fun with that approach.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted July 04, 2008 05:03 PM

Quote:
Basing an entire army lineup only on one race, that's plain retarded if there are more than enough interesting mythology and fantasy creatures to fill the spot.
So Heroes is a "listing of all mythological creatures" game?

Quote:
Sylvan's tier 2 unit is a good example of this, as are a lot of H5 Fortress' units. Dungeon's Blood fury is nothing but a cheap replacement of the harpy to suit the more "race based" idea more.
Oh yeah, the harpy would be so much more... "interesting"


But if you want to add all mythology in Heroes, add Santa Claus too

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted July 04, 2008 06:23 PM

Quote:
Dungeon's Blood fury is nothing but a cheap replacement of the harpy to suit the more "race based" idea more.
Cheap replacement? What makes you think the harpy is more "interesting"? I have the exact opposite opinion (I think the Blood Fury is much more interesting than a harpy)
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 04, 2008 06:27 PM

Quote:
But if you want to add all mythology in Heroes, add Santa Claus too
The day will come when God is the the tier 8 creature in Haven. [/Otherside]
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zazu1
zazu1


Adventuring Hero
Makes Sense
posted July 04, 2008 07:46 PM

Quote:
One important thing to note is that a faction's lineup are only the army: it doesn't say anything about what the rest of the faction is like economicly and politicly like.

H3 Fortress wasn't a town controlled by beasts, it was run by primairily lizardmen and to a lesser extent gnolls. Fact is only, in their army lineup, they used a lot of beasts - hence I don't agree with Alcibiades on that point


Basing an entire army lineup only on one race, that's plain retarded if there are more than enough interesting mythology and fantasy creatures to fill the spot. Sylvan's tier 2 unit is a good example of this, as are a lot of H5 Fortress' units. Dungeon's Blood fury is nothing but a cheap replacement of the harpy to suit the more "race based" idea more.


H5 ruined a great deal of fun with that approach.




Thank you Moonlith.  I'm just quoting your entire post so people will read it twice .  This is the answer for you story lovers.  Like Alcibiades said, the line-up is just their army.  And stop saying that a Blood fury is more interesting then a harpy, thats plain stupid.  The castle already has a Dark elf, anything is more interesting than another Dark elf.  I don't think anything else needs to be said here.  Just "imagine" that the hummanoids in the castle, keep order in the town and use the the other creatures in there army.  It's as simple as that.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted July 04, 2008 07:56 PM

Quote:
And stop saying that a Blood fury is more interesting then a harpy, thats plain stupid.
Thank you for your kindness, but I can respond in kind, where would that lead us?

Quote:
The castle already has a Dark elf, anything is more interesting than another Dark elf.
Even Santa Claus?

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
of nastiness
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 04, 2008 08:09 PM

Why some people can't understand that it's just a matter of taste and you can't really convince each other that you're right or wrong, because there is no right or wrong? As much as I agree with every word that alc said here, I think mvass was the closest to the truth - as long as it doesn't go to the extreme of either 7 unimaginative creatures of the same race or a totally random mix of creatures, it will always be good for some people, bad for others and the rest won't give a damn.
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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted July 04, 2008 08:09 PM

Quote:
Oh yeah, the harpy would be so much more... "interesting"


I don't know, maybe it would from a creative standpoint.  It's more original than some pale elf with two daggers.  Probably not in the way some might think though

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zazu1
zazu1


Adventuring Hero
Makes Sense
posted July 04, 2008 09:32 PM

Quote:
The castle already has a Dark elf, anything is more interesting than another Dark elf.
Even Santa Claus?


Ok, I have had enough of your Santa Claus remarks.  I have already countered this with my Santa Claus castle pages back.  Also, I am tired of seeing the term "Random soup of creatures".  There I no where where I have said I wanted this.  I specifically said themed - based castle.  To answer your question, yea maybe I would.  But I would rather stick to mythologies and not magical creatures that are completely made up by parents to have there kids have an imagination and wut not.

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A5ado
A5ado

Tavern Dweller
Master of Logic
posted July 04, 2008 09:34 PM

First of all, there is no "horror" type game.  Just becuase a storyline is 'scary' doesn't make it a different genre.  Resident evil is scary but its still a science fiction game that is meant to have an in depth storyline.  Just to be clear on a point: The storyline does not mean anything if the gameplay sucks.  Although I would not like to drag another game into an example I'm going to use Metal Gear: the story line is amazing, but I'm not about to go play the 2 dimensial NES metal gear for the story since (now that I'm used to modern games) it would be boring to play.  Same goes for Heroes: if the gameplay is not interesting, then the storyline doesn't mean squat.

Also, Zazu1 never wanted a 'random soup' stop using that term Death.  Its not about one extreme or the other, Zazu1 is arguing for creatures that are more diverse, but still themed.  As it was said before, harpies fit a theme because they are foul.  Pretty much anything can be said to make creatures fit in a theme, but of course you still have to consider the 'acceptabliity' factor.  No one will say the angels could be from the same castle as demons.

Another thing about the 'diversity' that there is confusion about is what exactly needs to be diverse (the looks, the abilities, etc.).  I think its annoying that you can see a dwarf looking creature, or an elfish looking creature, standing in front of a mine and have to think about which one of the several different kinds of dwarfs or elfs it actually is.  Therefore, having different creatures DOES affect the gameplay becuase it makes all the creatures more easily identifiable.

And here are my two cents about the mythological creautres and the blood fury thing.  It is much more interesting (in my opinion) for the creatures to actually have a basis in history.  Obviously none of them exist anyway so it doesn't really matter, but its still nice to have a familiar term.  By taking creatures from mythology, everyone has a familiarity with those creatures, people can know and recognize where they are from, what culture they are part of, and the stories surrounding those creatures.  Although santa claus would be ridiculous, he would still be familiar (not that I'd want santa claus - he is NOT a mythical creature).  My point is that 3DO could easily just make up random names such as "blood fury" or "snozgar" or "Ratchagatch-goo", but they are not familiar and thus not as interesting.  That is why it is better for the game to include mytholocial creatures.  I mean, would you play the game if all the creatures in it had some crazy made up name??
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted July 04, 2008 09:42 PM

Quote:
First of all, there is no "horror" type game.  Just becuase a storyline is 'scary' doesn't make it a different genre.  Resident evil is scary but its still a science fiction game that is meant to have an in depth storyline.  Just to be clear on a point: The storyline does not mean anything if the gameplay sucks.  Although I would not like to drag another game into an example I'm going to use Metal Gear: the story line is amazing, but I'm not about to go play the 2 dimensial NES metal gear for the story since (now that I'm used to modern games) it would be boring to play.  Same goes for Heroes: if the gameplay is not interesting, then the storyline doesn't mean squat.
Pardon me but who said that the gameplay suffers if the towns are race-based?

on the contrary in fact

Quote:
Also, Zazu1 never wanted a 'random soup' stop using that term Death.  Its not about one extreme or the other, Zazu1 is arguing for creatures that are more diverse, but still themed.  As it was said before, harpies fit a theme because they are foul.
Just because it is foul doesn't mean it has to be in a dungeon town for example -- is there any reasonable way to think that it can live in a town with other creatures (communicates well, etc)?? What about culture? Any town has a culture

Quote:
Another thing about the 'diversity' that there is confusion about is what exactly needs to be diverse (the looks, the abilities, etc.).  I think its annoying that you can see a dwarf looking creature, or an elfish looking creature, standing in front of a mine and have to think about which one of the several different kinds of dwarfs or elfs it actually is.
It's not annoying and it makes you think more reasonable about how they are formed up -- when creatures are organized, they need to have a culture. But bleh, why explain if you won't listen, right?

Quote:
Therefore, having different creatures DOES affect the gameplay becuase it makes all the creatures more easily identifiable.
And that is gameplay?

Quote:
And here are my two cents about the mythological creautres and the blood fury thing.  It is much more interesting (in my opinion) for the creatures to actually have a basis in history.  Obviously none of them exist anyway so it doesn't really matter, but its still nice to have a familiar term.  By taking creatures from mythology, everyone has a familiarity with those creatures, people can know and recognize where they are from, what culture they are part of, and the stories surrounding those creatures.  Although santa claus would be ridiculous, he would still be familiar (not that I'd want santa claus - he is NOT a mythical creature).  My point is that 3DO could easily just make up random names such as "blood fury" or "snozgar" or "Ratchagatch-goo", but they are not familiar and thus not as interesting.  That is why it is better for the game to include mytholocial creatures.  I mean, would you play the game if all the creatures in it had some crazy made up name??
Ever heard of originality? Would you play a game that is exactly like the previous one?

Crazy made up name? Dude, mythological creatures ARE made up too.

A town needs to have a culture if you want to be organized, etc.
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