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| Thread: Heroes 6 variant factions | |
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Skirr
Hired Hero
The Spawn Slave
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posted July 28, 2008 02:43 AM |
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Heroes 6 variant factions
After a too long time when my internet connection was being stopped by some idiot at the Telecom, I returned. The last thing I do is to not finish my work on the Swamp faction, and I ask forgiveness to you all for it, but I was blocked. Sorry again.
Well, I don't open this topic only to say "forgive me", but because I have some proposals for some new H6 factions. So, please comment and criticize my job.
First, the Human race: in all the past Heroes, Human are good and angelic, ever with paladin, angel and priest. In Heroes 6 there can be a evil human race, like slavers or cultist, or a savage one, like barbarian or nomads. Another possibility are that the racial enemies of the good humans are some barbarian (like Romans) or rebels or reject, instead of the classic undead or demons.
Second, marine race: in all the Heroes saga, the only marine monsters appears in H4, so why there could be an whole marine race in Heroes 6? There can be mermaid, shark-man, crostaceus-like creatures, sea elf ecc, and all the units in this race can swim and move slowly on the land, and one of the principal building can be the dock.
Third and last, a mechanical race: the mechanical monster are ever being considered too dumb for build an empire, but if those machines was being controlled by a central database that rule all the reign? A mechanical race can be interesting to play, and it can be ever tipe of units, but without caster (all the fantasy mechanical creatures was being created by spells, so for them the magic are the same thing as the life are for us: a mistery). Maybe there can be some break-spell, or many units are resistent to magic, for dodge mass dead because of some fireball.
And I finish for now. Tell me what you think about these ideas. And sorry for all the error, I don't know the english very well, you know 
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted July 28, 2008 10:33 AM |
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Ok, where to begin.
Firstly, i like the idea of having a decent, evil, human faction and not them mincing about with angels and the light. That fits the human persona more, the willingness to do absolutely anything to acheive their goals.
secondly, the water race is a nice idea, and you've done your research in the building up to it's realisation, and I commend you on that.
Thirdly, the Mechanical race, I like the sense of mystery in this race provokes, and also the idea of spell breaking would add a sense of dread to, the mostly, magic using states.
And now onto my suggestions-
there are currently three factions, why not pull a Rise of legends and make those factions three ways of using power, Arcane magic, mechanical, nature?
either that or add a fourth faction that is all about the ethereal powers of the spiritual plane, added the fourth factor of Elemental magic.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 28, 2008 01:09 PM |
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I kinda of agree with the evil humans but not a entire town of them.
Why not alternate upgrades that are "evil" ?
The Naga are perfect for a marine town and im 100% sure that they will come in the next HoMM game.
I do not agree at mechanical race at all. We have Academy, is not that enough? Look at Forge, almost no one liked it and there are very few on the forum that still like Forge and Forge-like towns.
And I finish for now. Tell me what you think about these ideas. And sorry for all the error, I don't know the english very well, you know
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 28, 2008 01:16 PM |
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The humans to be evil, you got my vote. Thsi usually goes against all standards of fantasy games  Besides the beasts can be the new good faction. Would be so cool
Sea faction? Would be uber, innate skill so the hero does not need a boat to cross water
Mecha race? FORGE IS BACK!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!! It is a need.
And why should the humans be good guys? Humans can be cruel enogh as it is
Quote:
Look at Forge, almost no one liked it and there are very few on the forum that still like Forge and Forge-like towns.
You know........ like 5% of the fanbase did not like the idea, yet we complain to this day wondering how it would have been to play Forge.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 28, 2008 01:26 PM |
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Yeah but how many at this forums do you think still like Forge and how many outside the "forums" do you think would like a completly anti-fantasy-based race that seemed like a big joke ...
Im just glad we got the ridiculos over-powered Conflux instead of that crap
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted July 28, 2008 01:28 PM |
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Whoo... can't argue with that logic. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 28, 2008 01:34 PM |
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The mighty Cepheus 
/shivers
/runs away
/cries
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted July 28, 2008 01:38 PM |
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Whoops, guess I might have struck a nerve there.
Anyway, enough Forge jibba-jabba.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted July 28, 2008 02:06 PM |
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Fact is a holy-based human empire is quite regular and hard to imagine Heroes without. If the human faction is not based on the holy angelic image, then what faction is?
Keep in mind, holy =/= Good. In fact, it's quite easy and likely to design the human holy faction as being over-zealous and in such a sense, be condemned as 'evil' by other good factions such as Sylvan.
Factions like Necro are usually condemned as evil, even though they simply do what they feel is right from their own philosophical standpoint.
H3 had Humans scattered all over the factions, as heroes in every single possible town, even in the Demon towns. That was fine the way it was if you ask me; you don't need more boring human units in other factions, but human heroes in different factions is good enough, very valid, and something that is disastrously lacking in H5. H5 makes believe every single faction is seperated completely by race, it makes no sense whatsoever. As if all humans only work with human factions, bah! You would find cultists and the like at the least in Inferno, you would find powerfull selfish magicians in Dungeon as Warlocks... But we have none of that in H5.
Aqua: Problem is to implement a water based faction and make it actually balanced with others. And mind you; a faction doesn't need to be playable to make it into the game. If anything, I'm personally quite content with having various aquatic neutral creatures.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 28, 2008 03:24 PM |
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Seriusly, why more humans? What about the humans does not have a faction, but is scattered like in H3? Then we got a revolution for gameplay. Angles could even be some rigged neutral creep, or the top for the new good guys faction ^^
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 29, 2008 05:07 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 05:10, 29 Jul 2008.
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1. I must say I do find it a bit off that humans are always portrayed as good, and often as Christian, and also quite often as pure humans, I mean come on, surely we can have a few half-breeds in there as well, and why not a more Greek or Gaulish culture?
2. Water towns are going to be hard to balance, even if some of your creatures are amphibious rather than aquatic, they're going to be slow, which means they have to be relatively powerful, but still cheap to balance up the fact that they're now going to get as much money from mines and such.
3. There's nothing inherently wrong with a Forge style town, it's both magical (it has to be if it's pre-steam) and unique (half the units can be completely new and original).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 29, 2008 08:00 AM |
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I don't see a problem with having an evil Human faction, but I must admit that I find the Haven faction to be so solidly rooted in the game both in terms of game history as well as real life history that taking it out would be a mistake. However, there could be a good Human faction opposed by an evil Human faction, just like the elves - one should just be careful not to be too repetitive in the themes. Thus, no Haven vs. Renegade faction for me, too similar. One could even make a Dark Human faction, although I don't guess any developers would have the guts because of the possible racistic implications of something like that.
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 29, 2008 01:44 PM |
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On the evil human thing you said:
Quote:
...not a more Greek or Gaulish culture?
Since when were the Greeks "evil", primordial and unintellignet? -.-
Free Cities would fit good for "brutal" humans but I think the concept is boring. Do you want another "5 Humans, 1 Human/animal hybrid, 1 Animal" faction?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Skirr
Hired Hero
The Spawn Slave
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posted July 29, 2008 10:08 PM |
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Edited by Skirr at 22:08, 29 Jul 2008.
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Well, some days ago I tough about two new human race, one Asiatic (with ninja, samurai and chinese dragons) and another Voodoo (with spirits, shamans and demons), one against other.
There can be something like this in H6, maybe with a Heaven-like faction and without the Asiatic, or, as someone say, the human maybe can aren't be the "good" race in the game, but one "neutral" (that besides me it's more appropriate for the human).
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 30, 2008 01:07 AM |
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Quote:
On the evil human thing you said:
Quote:
...not a more Greek or Gaulish culture?
Since when were the Greeks "evil", primordial and unintellignet? -.-
I actually meant, 'why don't we for once get a Greek or Gaulish (or indeed some other culture) human town as opposed to a Christian one'?
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Skirr
Hired Hero
The Spawn Slave
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posted August 06, 2008 01:33 AM |
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Edited by Skirr at 01:58, 06 Aug 2008.
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There: this is an example of three alternative human race. Tell me what you think.
Asiatic:
Allignement: good
Heroes: sensei (might), mistic (magic)
Heroes basic skills: combat (sensei), withe magic (mistic)
Creatures:
1) Ronin-Samurai/Guardian (with bow)
2) Giant lion-War lion/Jade lion
3) Jade golem-Jade guardian/Royal golem
4) Thug-Ninja/Sniper
5) Flame fox-Ninetails/Shade fox
6) Kami-Oni/Kamei
7) Rain dragon-Storm dragon/Wind dragon
Greek:
Allignement: neutral
Heroes: emperor (might), propeth (magic)
Heroes basic skills: nobility (emperor), blue magic (propeth)
Creatures:
1) Hoplite-Hypaspist/ Peltast
2) Toxotes- Crossbowman/Torch archer
3) Pegasus-Holy horse/Sun horse
4) Minotaur-Dungeon minotaur/Barbarian minotaur
5) Centaur-Elite centaur/Sniper horseman
6) Medusa-Medusa queen/Medusa sentry
7) Colossus-Steel colossus/Gold colossus
Voodoo:
Allignement: evil
Heroes: hunter (might), shaman (magic)
Heroes basic skills: scouting (hunter), black magic (shaman)
Creatures:
1) Scout-Headhunter/Pigmean
2) Giant snake-Anaconda/Cobra
3) Mud beast-Slime beast/Swamp hunter
4) Swamp spider-Poisonus spider/Spider trapper
5) Wasai-Executer/Visna
6) Guardian spirit-Elder spirit/Swamp demon
7) Bone golem-Bone horror/Spirit eater
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 10, 2008 11:55 AM |
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Ok, a couple of things
1. very good so far, but there is always room for improvement, and so without further ado
Quote:
Asiatic:
Allignement: good
Heroes: sensei (might), mistic (magic)
Heroes basic skills: combat (sensei), withe magic (mistic)
Creatures:
1) Ronin-Samurai/Guardian (with bow)
2) Giant lion-War lion/Jade lion
3) Jade golem-Jade guardian/Royal golem
4) Thug-Ninja/Sniper
5) Flame fox-Ninetails/Shade fox
6) Kami-Oni/Kamei
7) Rain dragon-Storm dragon/Wind dragon
Ok, firstly, I don't like the idea of labling a faction as simply "Good". it takes so much depth out of it.
Second, not the best choice of heroes, Sensei's are usually private individuals who wouldn't lead an army into battle, and Mystics make me think of someone unsure and unready for leadership of any kind. also the idea of having White magic is a little bit too goody-two-shoes and more pacifistic for someone who is at war.
thirdly, the creatures seem a little strange. Samurais were nobility, and putting them three levels below ninjas (who were peasants who fought guerrilla wars) seems a little bit like putting a kitten above a lion interms of power. Speaking of which, the Lions are a nice idea, but do we really need the golem as well? Flame foxes a bit hard to comtemplate why they are so low in terms of power, considering ninetails were meant to be kinds of the spirit world. Also, Kamei's are gods, and so Kami to turn into Oni seems strange... The dragon is nice though, i'll give you that.
Quote:
Greek:
Allignement: neutral
Heroes: emperor (might), propeth (magic)
Heroes basic skills: nobility (emperor), blue magic (propeth)
Creatures:
1) Hoplite-Hypaspist/ Peltast
2) Toxotes- Crossbowman/Torch archer
3) Pegasus-Holy horse/Sun horse
4) Minotaur-Dungeon minotaur/Barbarian minotaur
5) Centaur-Elite centaur/Sniper horseman
6) Medusa-Medusa queen/Medusa sentry
7) Colossus-Steel colossus/Gold colossus
Ok, Firstly, I don't like the idea of having a race entirely devoted to greek mythology, mainly because there is just too much to fit in, but anyway, we'll run with it.
for heroes, Emperor sounds more likely to be the ruler of the Asiatic race, whilst sometime like Wanax (Myceanean king) or Myrmidion would be a better might hero. However, the prophet is a nice idea, but with white magic, blue magic is just... not particularly attractive.
Creatures wise, however, it is reasonably good.
Quote:
Voodoo:
Allignement: evil
Heroes: hunter (might), shaman (magic)
Heroes basic skills: scouting (hunter), black magic (shaman)
Creatures:
1) Scout-Headhunter/Pigmean
2) Giant snake-Anaconda/Cobra
3) Mud beast-Slime beast/Swamp hunter
4) Swamp spider-Poisonus spider/Spider trapper
5) Wasai-Executer/Visna
6) Guardian spirit-Elder spirit/Swamp demon
7) Bone golem-Bone horror/Spirit eater
Firstly, I am a little concerned with the idea of dictating that Voodoo is evil, as that might call foul with the racism board (in the same way Resi evil 5 did) which is only heightened by your choice of colour for the magic of this "Evil" race.
Also, I wold like to note the lack of human troops in this army, and the rather curiously named "Pigmean". what does it mean? What does Wasai and Visna mean, come to that matter.
However, What interests me most about this is your moving Homm away from its high fantasy roots, and moving it into low fantasy, using only humans rather than having Elves and orcs and so on. Thats fine, you know, it might be interesting to see how people react to that, but if that is the case then you will need to get rid of the idea of good and evil. Low fantasy has appeal in the fact it is not just black and white, but in all shades of gray, and so if that is the case, you will need too think about how to balance the characters of good and evil inside the different races.
what is also interesting is your inclusion of several creatures of a spiritual, or at least of a fantastical, nature, so allow me to offer an interesting idea for the lore and the game...
bixies proposal for Skirrs game
Its a world where two people live, the humans live by day, the spirits rule the night. the two need each other and live in a mutual relationship, the spirits need the humans offerings, and the humans need the spirits magic in order to survive. Its is also a world of nations and conquest. But it is fought on many different fronts. Whilst the humans of a nation will fight by day, the spirits of the same nation will fight by night.
In game terms, you will essentially control two towns that change depending on the time of day. By day, you will control the human town, and gain access to human soldiers and creatures such at mammoths, dinosaurs, elephants, tigers and lions. By night, you will control the spirit town, who will have access to spirit creatures like Kappa, Medusa, Visna and so on.
With this in mind, you will need two heroes in order for it to be effective, possibly might hero to control the human forces and a magic hero to control the spirit forces. that doesn't limit might to one and magic to the other, and so they could have a special gate that allows them to switch places with each other, as well as keep their troops.
I would suggest that the barest minimum of races that you have with this system would be 4, one Oriental, One Arabian, One Tribal, and One Greek, all with their own good and bad sides, and give a reason behind each. For example, the Tribal society might practice cannabilism, but they do that in order to allow the spirit of the person they have killed to reside inside them and for them to gain their strength.
these are all just ideas, so tell me what you think.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Skirr
Hired Hero
The Spawn Slave
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posted August 12, 2008 12:06 PM |
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Edited by Skirr at 12:08, 12 Aug 2008.
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Ehm... it look that you have misinterpreted my job... the three factions was just three example of some alternative human factions in heroes, not three real new race that I want in H6. Your idea is fine, but this work is not the real faction (i don't like the greek one too ). I work on there in future, for now I answer at some question:
first: another heroes for the asiatic would be the shogun and the sage, for example?
second: the flame foxes are one-tail version of the ninetails, so it isn't too hard to manage. And I don't do exactly how a realistic asiatic race would work. My kami, for example, aren't gods, I just put the first spirit in my mind for the basic unit of the oni. And my ninja are such the H4 heroes, with some magic power, like invisibility, so it's more powerful that the samurai, that are just warrior.
third: there isn't a "good" or a "evil" faction, beside me, the allignement are just for say at who the faction are ally. In a full good one there can't be assassin like ninja or demon like oni.
fourth: I don't know the english traslation for the italian word "pigmei", so I use pigmean. There is those little man that live in the jungle of the south America (i don't know the english name of the jungle too  ). The Visna and the Wasai are my ideas: the first are such giants with four arms and swords, the other have only two arms and use spear.
OK, now I hope I answer at all. For the complete race just wait a little more, ok?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 14, 2008 07:29 AM |
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cool
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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