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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Have you ever tried martial arts? Facts and myths about MAs.
Thread: Have you ever tried martial arts? Facts and myths about MAs. This thread is 35 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 31 32 33 34 35 · «PREV / NEXT»
antipaladin
antipaladin


Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted August 04, 2008 02:57 PM

Good Topic,didnt know you afan of it like me.
Pretty truethfull facts,i train boxing,judu and sticky hands with a frinde. although i also know the very basics of ikidu and Tae kawn du.

The basic diff of TKD is that its foot work,it name litterly means in korean leg hits or leg style. alas another differnce is boxing is not only leg movment,and not leg striking\blocking it teaches you not just to dodge attacks but block to counter.
Very truethfully on the roundhouse comment,i actually did beat a TKD novice with a very simple kick. He did 3 roundhouses kick in a raw,after i dodged the 2 and noticed a black spot he did the third,i dodged again and kicked the backside of the thigh,when he was forced to hes knee becouse of the muscle hit,the fight was forfitted.
Judu gives u grapling menuvers as well as evoiding,but no block,you have to train you endurance,my minos is that i get winded quickly.

a wrestling techniche gives u grapling,for some reason i insticivly grap the neck,full nellson or a sleeper hold,it can be easily counterd,but not by meny.

a fact you should is meny mertial arts differ is becouse of meaning.
what they used to,hack i can do Val tudo if im a streat fighter,or russian sambo which something simmiler to krav maga.
krav maga is litterly hebrew meaning touch combat.
but i dislike it for it rages you to extream rather then teach patience,like kungfu and karate does.
What is BBj? you have to give full name for this one.
as for 5 against one,you best tachtich would be not concerting in one,ie all five aproch at the same time u dodge one and move away from him,mostly tackle or kick him somewere,never be cronred.
head bumpsont do,unless u want to end up in hospital,im very against it,or head stirkes in ussaly,my stirkes are legs,knees,kidness,and maybe chin.
tell me,what do you think of combing Pro wrestling,Judu,boxing and tae kwan do?
____________
types in obscure english

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2008 02:58 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:00, 04 Aug 2008.

Quote:
]You can get pretty easily resistant to the spray. Scientific documentaries.... but those are fake too, right?


No, they are very true, some pepper sprays are pretty pathetic! I would give you a 100 page long topic on polish forums with various pepper sprays' analyses, but since it's polish, never mind. There are also people resistant to pepper spray, but it's not "easy", trust me. Another innate thing.

Quote:
Youngsters and people practicing martial arts solely for entertainment purposes are not martial artists. Period. You can't draw conclusions from them that every true martial artist is like that. Most masters do not even SEEK fights, even for entertainment. Traditional martial arts are about CONTROL of yourself, not about FIGHTING or ENTERTAINMENT.


I never questioned that. But don't forget that they won't teach you how to fight - they will teach you a thousand of other things, but you will be a BAD fighter, trust me. And that's bad, morals aside.

Quote:
Of course you now have twisted meanings of it, including sport. However, people also think "hacker" now is the same as "cracker". I'd only wish people were to actually not twist old words and rather make up new ones to avoid confusion.


In Polish, we have names for the modern group, the traditonal and the combat ones, but I'm not sure of the translation, so I used the term "martial arts" against all of them.

Quote:
Martial arts is not about entertainment. It's about controlling yourself. Just because you can use this to fight and kill doesn't mean you should train yourself FOR THAT purpose, and become "famous". Not to mention this contradicts their philosophy.


Did I ever say you should go out and show off?

Quote:
1) Who said "chi block" (or ki block whatever) isn't 'real'? Because you didn't see anyone personally or a video? But let's be honest, if you were to see a video, you would most likely say it's fake, right?


Because no one EVER performed it for money, and don't tell me EVERYONE is an idealist that resists the urge to be ultra rich and famous because I will just laugh at it.

Quote:
Now you can believe your own experience, and I'm not saying you shouldn't. However do keep in mind that you may not ever encounter a true martial artist.


As much as I will never encounter a dragon, I fear.

Quote:
There is a limit of degree what to believe, and of course I'm not telling you what you should believe. But limiting yourself only to your experiences may be correct, but also limited.


Those are not my experiences. It's - again - all the experience UFC, K1 and Pride bring. Those are the ultimate oracle when it comes to martial arts (or martial sports, if you prefer to call them that way.)

Quote:
I don't know much about, but I think you're making too much theory crafting. Don't get me wrong, you can go ahead and do this right now -- that doesn't mean you are a true martial artist or anything. Some people can be "done for", it depends also on opponents. Most likely, neither you or me have 'witnessed' such a thing, so while I admit movies always exaggerate, it also applies the other way around.


Theory crafting? Lol. A man that talks about chi blocks accuses me of theory crafting. How ironic Look, it's reality. Thousands of people experienced such things. The general consensus is: Do NOT fight a crowd, your chances are so small that they are nearly non existant. Sure, you can win.. but you can also win a lotto draw and become rich.. does that mean you should stop working and depend on something that is most likely NOT going to happen? It's safer to say you will never win a lotto draw. And that you will never defeat 6 enemies at once. Exception makes the rule anyway.

Quote:
It can be done, but apparently you really have to know what you're doing for it to be effective and even if you're extraordinarily skilled its apparently virtually impossible to attack somebody with more than 4 people at a time.


4+ ? Even Chuck Norris won't do. Sorry. Unless they are drunk, weak, cowardly, unarmed, and a huge piano falls off the sky killing three of them at once.. Sure, it can happen, but what is the probability? Near zero.



Wow, a lot of quotes. But with TheDeath's style of writing, it's virtually impossible to sum up what you want to say and NOT use quotes. I would get lost in my own post without them!

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted August 04, 2008 03:35 PM

Quote:
I never questioned that. But don't forget that they won't teach you how to fight - they will teach you a thousand of other things, but you will be a BAD fighter, trust me. And that's bad, morals aside.
Hmm... I think the term "fighter" is quite loose. Picking randomly on the street is that... random -- because you don't know your opponents. Even if they're bad. Random doesn't mean necessarily under 50%.

Quote:
In Polish, we have names for the modern group, the traditonal and the combat ones, but I'm not sure of the translation, so I used the term "martial arts" against all of them.
I know, it's really hard these days to find a "normal" hacker that is a 'genius'. People now use "hacker" to mean "cracker".

Quote:
Did I ever say you should go out and show off?
I was making a post detailed with what's it like, not necessarily pointing it at you.

Quote:
Because no one EVER performed it for money, and don't tell me EVERYONE is an idealist that resists the urge to be ultra rich and famous because I will just laugh at it.
You're right, however remember what I said (and in some way, Jet Li). If you want to get to money, you will NOT perform CORRECTLY. IF you happen to be a true martial artist doing it the correct way, trust me you will think completely differently about the world, and look at the past how different you were.

So basically, if you are thinking about how awesome you will become or how much money you can win or how many people you can beat up while training, then you are going to FAIL. That's why no one does it for money and "works". After you train yourself, if you do so, correctly, again your entire mentality should have changed by then. If it hasn't, then you didn't do it correctly.

Also meditation is a form of self-hypnosis, and I hope you read the article I gave about that?

Quote:
As much as I will never encounter a dragon, I fear.
Exactly. I'm not saying i believe in dragons. But making statements about dragons being "weak" because you killed, for example, a lizard, or that you saw people beating up lizards, isn't really a good thing to assume from

(hope you get the analogy)

Quote:
Theory crafting? Lol. A man that talks about chi blocks accuses me of theory crafting. How ironic Look, it's reality. Thousands of people experienced such things. The general consensus is: Do NOT fight a crowd, your chances are so small that they are nearly non existant. Sure, you can win.. but you can also win a lotto draw and become rich.. does that mean you should stop working and depend on something that is most likely NOT going to happen? It's safer to say you will never win a lotto draw. And that you will never defeat 6 enemies at once. Exception makes the rule anyway.
Again, "thousands" have experienced it, but that's the problem. I think most of these thousands are ego-centered people that want to show to the world how awesome they are. That's ok, it doesn't mean that I have to agree with their mentality.

Now since I'm familiar with programming, I will give you an example. There are bad programmers, those that use too many 'self-cleaning' programming languages and don't know anything about languages like, for example, assembly (which is very low level and difficult to master, but once you master it, it's EASY). They start and make up all kinds of "facts" like:

Assembly is difficult to learn. Assembly is difficult to debug. Assembly is pointless. Compilers optimize better than assembly.

And much more nonsense. As a guy who knows BOTH areas, I am always amazed about these "facts". I guess since you don't program, you'll have to trust me on this. I saw the output of the best compilers. I even reasonably and logically explained why they CANNOT optimize an algorithm -- because of insufficient information regarding the task at hand (you don't tell your computer what a Z-buffer is, for example, it just sees code).

What's the response? They say I speak bullsnow, it's the same with all "hackers" (not crackers). There are assembly communities around, and hacker communities, but unfortunately, people that make up so called "facts" because they have never programmed "the correct way" won't listen -- even if I showed them examples of why compilers fail to optimize. Not to mention, most "facts" above are subjective.

Don't take me wrong. I program in C 80% of my time, and very few in assembly. But the "knowledge" of it makes you think at a whole different level. It is not necessary to even write one line of assembly language to call yourself a "hacker"! Just the knowledge and appreciating the "myths" about it and "facts" from so-called ignorant people. As someone said:

"Who would you believe, an expert well versed in both types of programming languages or someone who has never taken the time to learn assembly language and develop an honest opinion of its capabilities?"

Note appreciate the difference between "never taken the time" in the above. Most people who want to further prove their 'facts' actually DO learn assembly, but they do so with DOUBT and disbelief and not being HONEST about it. They fail miserably at first. Some continue, and even then, they are outperformed by a compiler, simply because THEY ARE BAD ASSEMBLY PROGRAMMERS.

Then the so-called "facts" are being born -- since that one person who didn't do it correctly and was "bad" at it failed, then let's assume that's the way things are, right?


But you know what? Hackers aren't even interested in "proving" to those ignorants. What would they achieve? It's not like proving will suddenly make them any better at programming (the people who claim "facts" I mean), only that they will tear their joy of believing assembly is a piece of crap.

Quote:
4+ ? Even Chuck Norris won't do. Sorry. Unless they are drunk, weak, cowardly, unarmed, and a huge piano falls off the sky killing three of them at once.. Sure, it can happen, but what is the probability? Near zero.
1) Who said Chuck Norris is such an expert? I was usually using it because people seem to exaggerate and call it "facts" (check out chucknorrisfacts.com ).

The problem is that you don't have enough "variables" in the above probability equation. That's because of limited experience. I don't have either. Trust me, I would be beaten by a SINGLE gypsy (without weapons). I do agree with you that MOST, again MOST, "youngsters" who take pride in their own self and "awesomeness" are, again, not doing it the way it should be -- and the problem is that you take these examples and assume the same about the select few who do it right.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted August 04, 2008 03:48 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:49, 04 Aug 2008.

Quote:
Also meditation is a form of self-hypnosis, and I hope you read the article I gave about that?


Didn't have the time yet, but I certainly will, I like such things. Meditation is fine, but some people actually believe it can empower your strength, in some weird way. They think those "shaolin monks" meditate before the attack so they can gather their chi.. blah blah blah you probably know it. And - come on, a "meditating" monk would just get his skull crushed against a boxer. Funny how some people believe in things that have nothing to do with logic.

Quote:
Again, "thousands" have experienced it, but that's the problem. I think most of these thousands are ego-centered people that want to show to the world how awesome they are. That's ok, it doesn't mean that I have to agree with their mentality.


Hmm, I don't think the poor guys who got their butts handed to them by a group of thugs want to show the world how awesome they are. Don't you think? Humiliated people won't brag about it, they will rather give advices how to avoid such situations.

Quote:
1) Who said Chuck Norris is such an expert? I was usually using it because people seem to exaggerate and call it "facts" (check out chucknorrisfacts.com ).


I used him for the same reason.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted August 04, 2008 03:59 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 16:04, 04 Aug 2008.

Quote:
Didn't have the time yet, but I certainly will, I like such things. Meditation is fine, but some people actually believe it can empower your strength, in some weird way. They think those "shaolin monks" meditate before the attack so they can gather their chi.. blah blah blah you probably know it. And - come on, a "meditating" monk would just get his skull crushed against a boxer. Funny how some people believe in things that have nothing to do with logic.
Hypnosis can "heal" some cancer (from the article). Sure it's a speculation as to how "much", but that actually depends on how WELL you control yourself. It would be folly to assume that everyone meditates and has the same control -- some are better, some are not. And the better they are, the rarer you find them. And of course, just because someone, even a master, is not capable of doing something doesn't mean he has reached the full potential, whatever that may be.

Maybe you can empower your chi with some meditation, or rather make it use to it's full potential (whatever that may mean). With hypnosis, there have been cases (not in the article) of a 'medium' muscled man to hold a brick for twice the time than a heavy muscled "boxer" (I don't know whether he was actually a boxer or not, but sure looked like one, in the documentary). The boxer said that his muscles were exhausted (after like 20 minutes of holding that brick by extending the hand). The medium muscled man didn't even feel any exhaust after getting out of hypnosis

As to the boxer vs martial artist -- I don't know, it depends on the MA in question. Aikido is very efficient against opponents much heavier than you, because you don't "punch", you use his own weight against himself.

A guy also pulled a truck with his ear. How much muscle does the ear have?
(he's in the Guinness Book of Records)

Quote:
Hmm, I don't think the poor guys who got their butts handed to them by a group of thugs want to show the world how awesome they are. Don't you think? Humiliated people won't brag about it, they will rather give advices how to avoid such situations.
Who said the poor guys actually were masters? Of course, I think this would be the best way to "demonstrate" since every master defends himself -- that is, unless he breaks his honor.


----
As for hypnosis, it goes like this "If a person is fantasy prone and believes in hypnosis, it is likely that hypnosis will be effective. However, if a person doubts the possibility of hypnosis, it is likely to be futile."

similar to martial arts

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Asheera
Asheera


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posted August 04, 2008 04:02 PM

@Doomforge: I think you're influenced by the Western culture too much and thus that's why it's hard for you to understand "chi" and other stuff like that. Maybe if you were born in Japan you would have different views
____________

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Spectrum
Spectrum


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posted August 04, 2008 04:15 PM

Great thread, Doomforge! Seriously. Hats off.

I've done judo and jujitsu for 7 years and I'm thinking of starting either MMA or Tae Kwon Do in the near future. Preferably both, but I doubt I have the time.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted August 04, 2008 04:22 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 16:27, 04 Aug 2008.

Quote:
@Doomforge: I think you're influenced by the Western culture too much and thus that's why it's hard for you to understand "chi" and other stuff like that. Maybe if you were born in Japan you would have different views


Haha the truth is opposite The Japanese people, all asians, are totally crazy for MMA, while European/American people are attracted to their old traditions. Irony Look where UFC and K1 take place. Asian countries all the way

Quote:
Great thread, Doomforge! Seriously. Hats off.

I've done judo and jujitsu for 7 years and I'm thinking of starting either MMA or Tae Kwon Do in the near future. Preferably both, but I doubt I have the time.


THanks! I know that pain. I wanted to train box and BJJ to avoid losing grip in striking, but it was not possible So I've chosen BJJ and I'm stuck for a year with my crippled elbow. Great ><

I think I'll train strict MMA when I get healthy again, though

Quote:
What is BBj?


Bareback BlowJob, I think

BJJ Stands for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Quote:
tell me,what do you think of combing Pro wrestling,Judu,boxing and tae kwan do?


I don't think you can learn pro wrestling anywhere. And why do you want to? It's a scripted show. Did you mean Wrestling? Without the pro prefix If so, Teakwondo, Judo and Wrestling will make a great combination. You will be a great striker, good grappler and will have excellent takedown skills & takedown defense.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted August 04, 2008 04:50 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 16:51, 04 Aug 2008.

Ok, some more things about hypnosis

Hypnosis

Quote:
Interestingly, both the left and right side of the brains were active in the subject when the experiment was duplicated under the hypnotic condition. The researchers hypothesized that the left side of the brain registered what the subjects were told to see when hypnotized and that the right side registered what people were told to see whether or not they were hypnotized. This is interesting because the left side of the brain is coorelated with logic and rational thought. In this experiment, the left side of the brain becomes engaged in what may be considered a creative right-brained activity, but only when it is under hypnosis. Kossylan states that this means that, "hypnosis changes the conscious experience in a way not possible when we are not under hypnosis" (8).

A similar study was conducted in 1999, into the effects of hypnosis on pain perception. A person was asked to place their hand into hot water while in a hypnotic trance and when not in a hypnotic trance. The study measured brain waves in both cases using EEG and positron emission tomography. This study, like the Harvard Study mentioned above, found that there are specific patterns present within the brain, while it is in a hypnotic state (9). This, however, does not mean that scientist understand hypnosis any more than they did before, but they do know how the brain acts under hypnosis.

Quote:
By using suggestion and retaining control over the mind, the hypnotherapist has an enormous amount of control. This control was being exercised over my friend on stage. If used dubiously, hypnosis can be and dangerous thing. But, it can also be used to push human beings to their limits and expand the powers of the mind. For instance, if you give a person a brick and ask them to hold it out at arm's length this person can do so for about 5 minutes. Ask this individual to do this with the same brick, while hypnotized, and she can do it for 15-20 minutes (8).

Learning about hypnosis has lead me to believe that there are limits imposed by the conscious mind that do not necessarily need to exist. Why can I only steadily hold a brick out for only five minutes when I can truly hold it for about twenty minutes? What is this gap between what I am consciously capable of doing and what I am actually able to do while in a hypnotic state? My hypothesis is that there really is no gap, just boundaries my brain has created. I am convinced that I am limited by my mind's own fabricated boundaries. My capabilities are almost limitless, but I convince myself otherwise.

It was interesting to read about a study conducted at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, in association with Harvard Medical School, that used a large randomized sample of 241 people under going minimally invasive surgeries. The results show that people who utilized self-hypnosis techniques during surgery reduced surgery recovery time and pain. Those patients who practice self-hypnosis before undergoing surgery are more likely to be relaxed (9). Hypnosis gives patients a choice: to let their mind wander and agonize about worse case scenarios, or to relax and concentrate on a pleasing situation. Perhaps, in life, we all have a choice, we can go on confined by the boundaries of our conscious minds or we can find a way to free ourselves and live without boundaries.

In fact, people hypnotize themselves all the time. For example, on a long car ride the mind goes into trance and a sort of hypnosis incurs. Perhaps, one time while driving you recalled a fond memory, this is a different state of mind, like hypnosis. Hypnosis is the ability to control levels of consciousness, if we can bridle that control, our potentials are surely limitless.


I hope it's not that off topic, since it is somewhat connected to meditation
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Daystar
Daystar


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posted August 04, 2008 04:55 PM

I haven't voted because my answer isn't there: No, but I might some day.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?

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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
posted August 04, 2008 04:59 PM

Quote:
No, but I want to try it in the future


What do you mean not there?
____________

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted August 04, 2008 05:04 PM

Some more food for thought...

Third Eye

Third Eye - Pineal Gland

Brain and Meditation


I hope this is not off topic. Just read them if you want to

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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
posted August 04, 2008 06:39 PM

Sure if many guys rush you there's othing you can do...
BUT how many guys are willing to rush you?
If they rush you you can hit two of them before they reach you. How often would people be ready to take that chance?
Average people are doubtful even about attacking at all not to mention charging someone.

I think there is a true story I know that would interest The Death and to some extenct DF. In the seventies there was a man here who knew how to stop blood. Now this isn't a a fairy tale. The local hospital used to call to him when they had done all they could to stop a bleeding but had failed. The bleeding would stop when the guy used his technigue. The guy has been dead for almost 30 years now but there are still people who could tell you about him. I don't think he ever passed his skill onwards. I quess his son(if he ever had one) didn't want to continue the witch tradition. There are a lot of old "dubious" knowledge that has gone missing.

When things like the above are possible then why wouldn't killing moves be such impossible? Makes you think.
But it doesn't change the fact that they would be nigh-impossible to use in a fight.

Should we take on the subject of flying kicks?
I personally have never attempted such a thing in a fight and I never will.
____________

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted August 04, 2008 06:51 PM

Quote:
When things like the above are possible then why wouldn't killing moves be such impossible? Makes you think.
But it doesn't change the fact that they would be nigh-impossible to use in a fight.
Exactly. Most people can't be "super masters" and in fact even masters can't be "super masters", doesn't change the fact that it can't be done, just that some people (we are talking about) can't. Personally, I can't so see?

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Daystar
Daystar


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Back from the Dead
posted August 04, 2008 06:52 PM

want implies vauge plans to do so, might suggests that I could go either way.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?

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antipaladin
antipaladin


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of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted August 04, 2008 06:53 PM

flying kicks leave you so vonrabull if dodged.
Flying knees...thats another thing.
my six factors of fighter:

Patience most improtent, losing patience mean losing all of the fight. it is realted to stamina.
Balance,keeping yourself from falling down,atleast without the opponent. this is related to flexability,since in some techniche (drunken fist,and even judu) they go hand to hand.
Technique hack you gota do something right,this is related to how you exccute hits,a frinde of mine tried so badly that he put hes thumb under hes index finger when he made a fist,and when he therw a punch,it broke hes finger.
agility and strangth. in fights u can be either strong and quick but not acruate,either acruite and strong,but slow,or aquirte and quick,but weak.
Cordination? yeah ,when exccute an attack must be also blocking,for a counter.
i dont think weight is so strong,couse me 60Kg and a juduist 78kg own a giant grapler who weights over 150kg by the oldest trick in the book.
we ware holding him at the sides by the arms and sholders and putting one of our legs behind hes,then with a weak push he crashed to the flour on hes back.
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types in obscure english

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted August 04, 2008 06:55 PM

well, that was 2 v 1. Try 1 v 1 and you will see

Flying kicks? Too risky. Slow. Require a lot of space. Easy to predict. If your opponent knows what he's doing, you will end on the ground, which may lead to quick KO

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antipaladin
antipaladin


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posted August 04, 2008 07:47 PM

i defeated him once by myself,with a simmiler idea. the bigger they are the harder they fall,they have no speed,just sheer strength,if used right,can be deadly,if not..he did bear hugged me though,and i could only escap it by kneeing him in the stomech,.
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Doomforge
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posted August 04, 2008 07:52 PM

Big guys can be as agile as smaller. Believing thick = fast, muscular = slow is wrong, it's just another urban legend.

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Adrius
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Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted August 04, 2008 07:56 PM
Edited by Adrius at 19:58, 04 Aug 2008.

Heh, one of my teachers weighs about 120 or more... And he's fast as hell!

Believe me, getting thrown with a Soto Makikomi (google it, it's an evil throw, one of my favourites too) by a überfast, 120 kilo guy is not pleasureable
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