|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted July 01, 2009 01:05 PM |
|
|
Maybe it's because I'm a bit older (and hopefully have learned one or another thing).
There is no thing as "just sex". A relationship has to do with loyalty; there will be lots of situations you will trust on his or her loyalty and help, even depend on it. If a partner CHEATS on you - that is, doing something with unforeseeable consequences without your consent, in secret, whether planned or spontaneous - you just can't trust upon this loyalty anymore. This is especially true, if the cheated knows the person with whom partner cheated.
There may just come a situation when partner will have to make a decision whom to support and help, and that may not be the cheated anymore.
Of course partner wasn't honest either. If he isn't honest THERE, is he or she honest AT ALL?
Lastly, you cannot keep what isn't there. If you had a nice thing going for five years and you somehow stumble upon the fact that you have been cheated, things become rather doubtful. Where Alcibiades and I obviously agree is that you should team up only with people who see things the same way as you, otherwise desaster is programmed.
From a certain point onwards NO ONE is so naive and doesn't know what they are doing when they KNOW, that sex with another person is a no-no and are STILL doing it. It just won't work - I mean, they may try to repair things, but it's difficult, and in my experience it's better to put a new window pane in, when the old one was smashed than to repair it.
Okay, let me EDIT this:
If you live in a partnership where it's considered mutually ok to have sex with others, you aren't cheating, so this can be dismissed as an irrelevant case.
Alchi says, more important than doing it is the reason why. Err, no, I disagree. Why would the reason be interesting? If there WAS a special reason, why couldn't that reason discussed or checked with partner? Why should the reason for it be intersting AFTER the act when it wasn't BEFORE?
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 01:19 PM |
|
|
Quote:
There is no thing as "just sex".
See, this was the bait I was hoping you'd jump on to. When you say, there's no such thing as "just sex", that's what I call the cultural influence.
Of course, I do agree that reducing it to "just sex" in most cases is problematic, but still ... And about the whole cheating thing: Sure, it's a huge let down to the relationship if you do something behind the other person's back. But there is no relationship without obstacles, and still we continue. I think we're particularly unforgiving on this particular area, and I don't think that's always beneficial.
Oh, and I'm not sure you can throw the age card at me here. 10 years ago, I think I was much more blue-eyed when it came to the nature of relationships than I am today - I just haven't changed in the same direction as you have.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 01:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
There is no thing as "just sex".
See, this was the bait I was hoping you'd jump on to. When you say, there's no such thing as "just sex", that's what I call the cultural influence.
Of course, I do agree that reducing it to "just sex" in most cases is problematic, but still ... And about the whole cheating thing: Sure, it's a huge let down to the relationship if you do something behind the other person's back. But there is no relationship without obstacles, and still we continue. I think we're particularly unforgiving on this particular area, and I don't think that's always beneficial.
Oh, and I'm not sure you can throw the age card at me here. 10 years ago, I think I was much more blue-eyed when it came to the nature of relationships than I am today - I just haven't changed in the same direction as you have.
I don't think I agree with that at all. We are talking about a situation where one partner has sex with a third person, even though both agreed and pledged not to, so that it is cheating.
A comparable case would be this: You agreed to split or share your money in a certain way and that you'll discuss bigger buys. After a time you stumble upon the fact that parther cheated you, not telling you what he really earns, but a lot less than that, and he did spent the money so saved away for a weekend trip to Vegas wasting it in the casinos there.
Moreover, cheating, is usually not what it is supposed to be: feelings often are not honest. I mean, what will a one-time adventure gain? If it was "just about sex", why was it with that specific person? Is there any reason why it should stop now with that specific person? If the person wasn't the point, is there any reason why there shouldn't be a repeat with another "convenient" person?
More importantly, what about the person with whom you were cheated? The third one, so-to-speak. What are the motives of THAT person? Do you know it? Are their ulterior reasons? How does that person see this?
Is there too much weight given to sexual unfaithfulness? Nah, I don't think so. I know many cases where that was the last nail in the coffin, where someone just couldn't end a relationship that was dead for a long time. If you HAVE a clear understanding with your partner about this, and you DO find yourself in bed with a third person, chances are that your relationship made a wrong turn at some time in the past and is in its last stage anyway.
That doesn't mean that a relationship is necessarily doomed, if someone cheats.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 03:43 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 15:49, 01 Jul 2009.
|
Quote:
We were born nude, why so prudish about it?
We were born nude and lived in caves. Why are we so afraid of that lifestyle now?
As for the relationship thing, let's just say that, some people do not see a distinction of the degree of love. Most people like to call whatever they have as love, even if they know that someone else has more love, but they do not want to admit it.
For instance, how can you say you love someone when you choose pleasure over it (sex with someone else, for instance)? That's ridiculous, or at least, you may love him, but A LOT LESS than someone who may even goddamn sacrifice his life (which results in the opposite of pleasure). But people don't want to admit that they have less love than others, it makes them feel good if they say "what the **** do you know about love?". However any reasonable person would see the difference and I really don't care what those cheaters think.
Let me ask you something. In which case do you love your partner more? If you sacrifice for him/her, or if you say "no sex = no relationship"? The former love even implies you may take your damn life for them. The latter, you can't even give up sex for love, if they ask you to. How pathetic is that in comparison? It's like a kid saying "no candy = no love for you mom!", ridiculous so the love for his mom is OVERSHADOWED by a stupid candy (pleasure)?
I hope you see the colossal difference.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 04:09 PM |
|
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 04:21 PM |
|
|
JJ I wasn't exactly speaking of anyone here, and if you think that I would sacrifice myself, no I wouldn't (at least with my current mentality). It was just an example.
This doesn't apply only for cheating. If your partner hates WoW and wants you to stop, and you know how it annoys her, you should (if you truly love her, that is, unless WoW > your love -- see my point?)
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 04:44 PM |
|
|
I meant, "You can't even give up sex for love".
Usually you don't give up sex when you love someone, but instead HAVE sex with him or her.
If you mean, "if you can't even give up sex WITH OTHERS for love", then this makes no sense because if it's a sacrifice for you to give up sex with others, you actually don't WANT to give it up and should say so. Things you "give up" for love shouldn't be felt like a sacrifice - if they do, something is wrong.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 04:49 PM |
|
|
If you cheat, you know that your partner doesn't want it. So yeah, I would say, you can't give it up for love, so for me, I would question the degree of the love here. What if she asks you to give it up, for some reason? It's not uncommon for men to find their partner "boring" sex-wise at all.
That's where their true colors, and "their love", is revealed.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 04:58 PM |
|
|
If she has to ask you to give it up, then something is already wrong.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 05:03 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 17:04, 01 Jul 2009.
|
It happens all the time. Why do you think men cheat?
You're right, it's very wrong. With the MAN. 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 05:05 PM |
|
|
Most of the time (when the man cheats), the relationship starts, then the man cheats.
Rarely, though, does the relationship start with, "I'd prefer it if you didn't sleep with other women." Usually, the subject isn't even brought up until someone cheats.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 05:07 PM |
|
Edited by Minion at 17:16, 01 Jul 2009.
|
This is a very complicated issue. I think people are so different from one another that it is impossible to say anything much in general.
In a longer (or shorter even) relationship I'd say that clear majority doesn't want to get cheated on. But the fact that how you react to your partners cheating varies from individual to another, so it is pointless to come and tell another person that you should break up now; or for someone to say that it is no big deal, it was just sex. It all boils down to what emotions the act causes, sometimes it can easily tear down a relationship. Sometimes it can be forgiven, in the name that both still love one another and pointless to throw it away after one made a mistake (people DO make mistakes)
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 05:07 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 17:09, 01 Jul 2009.
|
@mvass: I don't see your point.
Are you saying that implicitly people think that "she expects me to cheat and is ok, unless she says no"? It's the other way around man.
@Minion: this is not a "mistake". Mistake would be, if he had good intentions but somehow ****ed it up. Neither does the accident excuse work.
"Oh honey, I'm sorry, it was an accident you see."
"Yeah? You just tripped or what?"
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 05:10 PM |
|
|
No, of course it's the other way around. That's why most couples generally don't need to mention it.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 05:56 PM |
|
|
And that's why low libido isn't bad. Because when people struggle not to cheat on their partners, I'm safe and sound. 
|
|
emilsn
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 06:41 PM |
|
|
Don't cheat !
It's bad...
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 06:42 PM |
|
|
|
But if your partner has a high libido, she isn't.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 07:02 PM |
|
|
But if we, just for the fun of it, tried to take a step back and see things from behind our culture:
Imagine there were no rules that stated that you should have only sex with the person you are married to (or in relationship with).
Don't you think it would be easier then? So that, instead of being forced to choose one or the other, you could have both if you desired?
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 07:08 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Don't you think it would be easier then? So that, instead of being forced to choose one or the other, you could have both if you desired?
It is a question of love. In this case, I would highly question that someone's love towards ONE person, since he probably knows what he is doing.
It would be like, having no rules for theft, so you could steal. Ok, you may not be a thief from society's point of view, but that doesn't make you a good person towards your neighbor, for instance (if you steal from him).
Rules don't change how you are.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 01, 2009 07:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
But if we, just for the fun of it, tried to take a step back and see things from behind our culture:
Imagine there were no rules that stated that you should have only sex with the person you are married to (or in relationship with).
Don't you think it would be easier then? So that, instead of being forced to choose one or the other, you could have both if you desired?
Isn't everyone free to live as they like?
|
| |
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
