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emilsn
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posted July 01, 2009 08:33 PM |
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Edited by emilsn at 20:35, 01 Jul 2009.
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About the whole cheating if seeing more then ones without being togther.
I think it's up to each person. I wouldn't do it .. 
@this my be a weird thing to add but Pornstars have sex with everyone and some of them have boyfriends (or GF) - so they dont suffer from this 
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alcibiades
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posted July 01, 2009 09:28 PM |
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Don't you think it would be easier then? So that, instead of being forced to choose one or the other, you could have both if you desired?
It is a question of love. In this case, I would highly question that someone's love towards ONE person, since he probably knows what he is doing.
It would be like, having no rules for theft, so you could steal. Ok, you may not be a thief from society's point of view, but that doesn't make you a good person towards your neighbor, for instance (if you steal from him).
Rules don't change how you are.
What you're talking about is morality. You make this comparison because you are hard-coded from our society that having sex outside marriage is moraly bad and wrong.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 01, 2009 10:35 PM |
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Nah, my society doesn't have that moralty - most of Europe hasn't, and hasn't for some time now.
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TheDeath
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posted July 01, 2009 10:55 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 22:56, 01 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
What you're talking about is morality. You make this comparison because you are hard-coded from our society that having sex outside marriage is moraly bad and wrong.
What morality?
People are free to cheat. What they are NOT free to do, is claim that they love the other person or force them to "understand" it. Because they don't, or at least, with any reasonable degree of it.
Let's compare to see what I mean, and why love is not "either you love, or you don't" but rather many people who claim to love have a LOT LESS love than others. Someone who has 100 wives. Just think how much exactly does he love one of his wives, let's say his first, if he puts this love below his "desire" to be with other women? His desire for whatever (maybe sex) is higher than his love. This is not a good sign for a loving person, or a person who claims he loves her or whatever. Compare that dude with someone who stays faithful to his wife ONLY. Which one loves that wife more? Simple question.
I'm not saying that I am perfect or a 100% loving person, hell no (lol) I'm only giving examples, BUT I do acknowledge that there can be people who can love more than me, and others (a lot) who love a lot less.
What if it was WoW? What if your partner was really getting sad and depressed because you played too much WoW, in this case? If you don't "give it up", it means WoW for you is more important than your love. This means you are not a loving person like someone who does. I know, people just WANT to be classified under a "loving relationship" for some reason, but you can call it whatever you want, it won't change how it is.
And I surely hope you don't think I'm talking about morality when using WoW as an argument right?
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alcibiades
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posted July 01, 2009 11:54 PM |
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What I refer to is the link that you (unconsciously?) make:
Because you "cheat" - i.e. have sex with someone else - you don't love the other person, or don't love him/her fully, or completely, or whatever.
That is because the incarnation of love you have in mind is in conflict with having sex with somebody else. Hence, you define love and sex as being comparable on a sort of 1:1 basis: If you love somebody, you don't have sex with others; and if you have sex with others, you don't really love that somebody.
And that is a link which has been established through society norms (morality and/or religion) through ages.
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TheDeath
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posted July 02, 2009 01:20 AM |
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Because you "cheat" - i.e. have sex with someone else - you don't love the other person, or don't love him/her fully, or completely, or whatever.
No, my point is that it means you don't respect your wife enough -- you know she isn't comfortable with it, yet you still do, and even mask it out in some cases. There is a reason that you want to "cheat" on her -- she may not like sex that much (most women don't, especially after a time -- I think they're just more mature than men that's why on average, men cheat a lot more). The point is like saying "Sorry honey, you know I really *must* have sex with that chick, and no, I won't 'give it up' for you."
Because your desire for PLEASURE is above of LOVE to her. That is why love is below in this case. That's why I would never put such a person, even if he has some love to his wife, on the same league as someone who would even sacrifice his entire damn life (not just his pointless pleasures!) for her. 
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DagothGares
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posted July 02, 2009 02:16 AM |
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So tell us what happened, Veco.
No judging here.
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Fauch
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posted July 02, 2009 03:46 AM |
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in overall I agree with thedeath
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sounds like cheating imo, unless each girl knows you are dating other girls at the same time.
also, I think, having a relationship with a girl, while you are more interested in another girl is cheating (even if you never did anything with the other girl)
many people consider cheating is about the acts. imo, it's about the feelings. if you lie to your feelings, you are cheating.
I think that's a bit too black-and-white.
I don't think humans from nature's side are really supposed to be monogamous. It's something our culture has forced down on us. I think for the majority it happens, at one time or another, that they'll be attracted to somebody other than who they are in a relationship with. That's not cheating, that's just nature.
it's not what I call cheating. but not following your desires is cheating yourself.
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In the end, being in a relationship is a lot about compromising (if not sacrificing) - thus not meaning that it's a negative thing, because it isn't, but there are some things you give up on also, and that's the cost.
if you feel like you are doing sacrifices, I'm not sure it's a good thing.
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My personal oppinion is that the whole fidelity thing plays too much of an importance in our culture. Not to say that people should just go around having sex with everybody (for some that works, but that's the minority) - but in many cases, people break up a loving relationship over some stupid act that had nothing to do with love, and that's really a pity. Of course, the problem is that for many of us, these things are so deeply hard-coded that we're unable to separate sex from love, even if we wanted to.
I was talking about love, not sex. you can just have sex with everyone, if you are honnest about it, it shouldn't be a problem.
I consider cheating as having a relationship with a girl who isn't the one you love the most.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 02, 2009 08:01 AM |
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Right. Cheating is cheating as in LYING.
The problem is not having sex with someone else, the problem is breaking an agreement (if there was an agreement of that sort, spoken or unspoken). If it's mo problem for both, it's not CHEATING, it's having sex with others as well, separately or in threes or fours or forties.
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alcibiades
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posted July 02, 2009 08:42 AM |
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Right. Cheating is cheating as in LYING.
The problem is not having sex with someone else, the problem is breaking an agreement (if there was an agreement of that sort, spoken or unspoken). If it's mo problem for both, it's not CHEATING, it's having sex with others as well, separately or in threes or fours or forties.
That's a good point. 
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I was talking about love, not sex. you can just have sex with everyone, if you are honnest about it, it shouldn't be a problem.
I consider cheating as having a relationship with a girl who isn't the one you love the most.
But what does that mean, the one you love most?
And just because you find somebody else attractive, and even (in the moment) more attractive than the one you're married (etc.) to, does that mean you love that other person more?
I think love and lust are two very different things. And I understand that you can learn to ignore lust in order to favor love, because our culture has shaped us to think - and feal - that that is the right thing to do. But is it a fact of nature that things should be so?
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TheDeath
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posted July 02, 2009 05:14 PM |
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And just because you find somebody else attractive, and even (in the moment) more attractive than the one you're married (etc.) to, does that mean you love that other person more?
No.
It means your lust is starting to take over love Quote:
I think love and lust are two very different things.
Yes.
The question is, is lust more important/powerful for you than love?
And yes like JJ said, cheating is lying. However, one does not need to cheat to not have as much love as he seems/want to says he/she has. Basically if something goes or overrides your love, then something is wrong with your love. Whether it be lust, deviousness (lying) or something else.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 02, 2009 05:29 PM |
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But is it a fact of nature that things should be so?
Who cares? If we'd followed nature, we'd still... well, you know, hav a life expectancy of 25 years or so.
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emilsn
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posted July 02, 2009 06:27 PM |
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I have a minor/major issue, whenever you are ready
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JollyJoker
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posted July 02, 2009 06:30 PM |
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emilsn
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posted July 02, 2009 07:00 PM |
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Edited by emilsn at 22:26, 02 Jul 2009.
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The destroyer, me, A *****
I gotta know if I am just an old freaking *** or if I may say what I did say ...
I kinda complained about her not ever contacting me, via sms or like that.. and well...
I feel that I am the only one who create contact.. so I complained a little about it..
But most of all it all come down to that I miss her because I work a lot and we wont have much time to see eachother this holiday.. and well, I just wanna hear from her when I am off.. ?
I am a ***** ...
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DagothGares
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posted July 02, 2009 07:08 PM |
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hey, if you've got prblems, let her now what's troubling you. Otherwise you create a distance between you two and maybe even start a small falling out. Your frustations will influence the way you you act toward her and it can be quite bad and even if you remin nice to her, you'll still feel bad and she might pick up on that. Generally, it's unhealthy for your relationship.
I myself am a manly man and never wanted to complain, but now I can point at it as one of the reasons why I broke up with someone, because she said I didn't trust her. Anyway, trust her. What you want from a relation isn't ridiculous it's what you want and it's something small and if it makes you happy, then your relationship will grow stronger out of it. And happiness is one of the most important things in life
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JollyJoker
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posted July 02, 2009 07:11 PM |
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You can say everything that's honestly on your mind.
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emilsn
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posted July 02, 2009 07:12 PM |
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but I just dont wanna be picky you know..
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DagothGares
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posted July 02, 2009 07:15 PM |
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I know...
I would say: tell her, but I know I wouldn't if someone told me.
I can say it IS the best solution, but i wouldn't follow it myself, because I'm lazy or don't want to hurt the relationship with reality.
I think I understand the problem very well, emil, but it wouldn't hurt if you just let her know and here comes the hard part: if she doesn't accept that, maybe she doesn't respect you and maybe it's not a workable relationship...
But all of that sucks, so I'll just advice you to perhaps take your mind off her or just wait until things get better again... Or they don't...
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JollyJoker
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posted July 02, 2009 07:26 PM |
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but I just dont wanna be picky you know..
Remember, you have to be yourself. If you ARE picky, then you ARE picky - no need to suffer from keeping a lid on things.
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