|
| Thread: A macro view of logistics |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
posted May 20, 2009 11:52 AM |
|
|
|
First of all, enlightenment and logistics are 2 skills that i always pick no matter the faction i play. Second of all, i don;t think that there's a "must-skill" that you should always pick.It's just that there are two that I always pick if they're offered. if i am a knight and i'm offered both in the same time, then it's enlightenment because it's rare. If i'm necro, or dungeon, i choose based on neutrals... if i think i can take them without enlightenment, then it's logistics, else enlightenment. But...it's rarely the case where i can't kill just as many neutrals in 1st week with or without enlightenment. So mostly... it's logistics unless enlightenment is rare for that faction.
|
|
Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
|
|
posted May 20, 2009 09:42 PM |
|
|
@ SKPRIMUS and Samiekl
Yes, it depends on many things like the neutrals, your faction, mapsize etc. It’s a good idea to scout the area fast with a secondary to get at least a partial overview. If the neutrals seem to be easy I prioritize logistics.
@ Elvin
I agree about limited choices week one, that’s why logs as starting skill is bad.
So you get logistics around level 10, when you have 1-2 good skills + some perks? And by week 3 you have expert logs and your mines, and are ready to quickly get the rest of the riches? Seems like a good thing to do.
Does the movement bonus give a level advantage so that the, say 4, log-levels means that you only have 1-2 “levels” less in combat skills/perks? If so, the advantage in artifacts could compensate. Or do the demands for new levels increase too much?
When I play a faction with mass spell-perks that may be hidden I think that it’s better to develop that magic school first. So a necromancer will get summoning for creeping and dark to secure a mass spell, and then I may get logistics. If I get something else logistics will be the fifth skill of six, and then the movement advantage is low since much of the map is already finished. Any ideas?
Haggash & Co are lame.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted May 20, 2009 10:09 PM |
|
|
Actually I'd rather have logs around lvl 5, you don't need too much to creep with. About levels I tend to hit 20 at least so you have a fair idea of what to expect, how much more is up to map. Developing magic schools is not a priority unless you have academy or dungeon, just having the basic or adv skill with a handy mastery is good enough for me. With necro I never develop dark during creeping since I don't need it, summoning is enough. After all you need to max logs and enlightenment to have a level advantage. Logs as a fifth skill.. Not much of a point, maybe if the map is long.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 21, 2009 04:38 PM |
|
|
i just wanted to point out that there are a number of considerations for why and when you would want to get logistics:
if you have a secondary for scouting, obviously you would want to get pathfinding, scouting, and/or snatch/navigation.
as far as your main hero goes, it really depends on the length of the map, how rich it is, how hard the guardians are, and also whether there is a memory mentor.
for big epic maps, i like to creep fast and level up fast, and therefore get skills like logistics, war machines/magic(depends on faction), and enlightenment as soon as possible.
later on, i will either get the skill mentoring to train a new hero or visit the memory mentor to remove skills i don't want. if you have a "rusher hero" like rutger, you can mentor out logistics and still have decent movement
for small maps, the key question is whether you can reach important areas before your opponent does without having do deal with powerful guardians(like utopia, enemy's castle, large stash of resources, etc.) if yes, get logistics; there is nothing more satisfying than claiming your enemy's castle after he has built everything for you!
if the map is well guarded, then logistics can wait; concentrate on getting skills to break up powerful creeps/garrisons
also, don't forget about the perks: warpath, snatch, swift mind, silent stalker,etc. some of which can be game changing under the right circumstances.
about silent stalker: this skill becomes very useful against other humans when you have a number of powerful heroes walking around:
keeps them guessing! 
|
|
lumpor
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 10:35 AM |
|
|
Ok maybe a bit obvious, but can be good for beginners to know:
If there's a mine with resouces beside it, and your hero can't take all of them that turn, and you don't need the resources immediately, get the mine first
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 12:48 PM |
|
|
In small maps, logistics and enlightment aren't of significant matter. As your hero won't reach high levels = not many extra skills. And you pretty much get fast to any place regardless did you have logistics or not.
I have a question too:
Pathfinding has always pondered me. In HoMM3 it increases movement on rough terrain by 75%. But afaik, this means increased movement on specific terrain labelled 'rough'.
But in HoMM5 there doesn't seem to be terrain called rough. So does the pathfinding affect movement on any terrain that is not road?
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 01:03 PM |
|
|
Both mastermind and rat race are small, try to play them without logs. With the exception of heritage of Deleb every other custom map that I know allows you to hit at least lvl 20.
About pathfinding it works the same way as before. But it wasn't just about rough, there was swamp, snow, sand etc. Typically only grass allows you to move at 100% of your movement, roads give a boost and all other terrains decrease your movement rate by 25 or 50%.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 04:44 PM |
|
|
The movement also depends on the hero. Wizards have no penalty on desert, Runemages on snow and so on. Only Knights and Rangers have no such bonus (everyone move without penalty on grass) but since grass is their terrain they have Familiar Ground instead.
If creatures fights on native terrain they get + 1 in attack and defense.
@ Ebbafan
Many good ideas from you in this thread.
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 07:22 PM |
|
Edited by Totoro at 19:28, 24 May 2009.
|
Does it mean that on sand (25% decreased movement, I presume) if I have pathfinding I move with 125% speed. Or does pathfinding cut the penalty of moving on sand by 50%. Meaning 50% off of 25% = 12.5%, so I would move with 87.5% speed on sand with pathfinding?
So pathfinding doesn't affect grass so it's still 100%, huh? So with pathfinding I would move 125% (unless it works in aforementioned way) on sand and 100% on grass?
Can I find exact table of this information anywhere? How do you know this?
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 07:33 PM |
|
|
It's all in the fan manual and I bet recorded to AoH. About sand it cuts your movement to 50% so with pathfinding your max movement would become 75%.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 07:36 PM |
|
|
Pathfinding will make you move 87,5% on terrain with 25% penalty.
You will find all info in the manual, which you can download from the Heroes V information pages on heroesofmightandmagic.com.
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 07:51 PM |
|
|
|
Hmmm... this manual sure answers many of my questions. Found terrain section that lists all penalties but I don't understand... for example sand = slows movement by 33% (50% cost penalty) whats that? 33% what and 50% what?
|
|
Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 08:01 PM |
|
Edited by Locksley at 21:21, 24 May 2009.
|
|
Let's say you have 300 movement points (mp). The cost penalty on sand means that movement cost 50% more, in other words every step cost 1,5 mp. 300 mp / 1,5 = 200 mp i.e. movement is reduced by 33% if you travel on sand instead of grass.
|
|
Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
|
|
posted May 24, 2009 09:01 PM |
|
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted May 25, 2009 08:05 AM |
|
|
Since pathfinding & terrain was mentioned,
is there a way to confirm in a game exactly what square a terrain is?
(short of looking at map editor which I can't be bothered doing!)
It would have been good to right-click a square to show exactly what terrain it is (so I know for sure if fight will be on grass for familiar ground).
Also, is there relationship between obstacles in battle vs terrain?
In some cases, it is ambiguous to me what terrain it is when it is close to border with other terrain type.
PS. it would also have been good to know the the in-game movement points remaining for heroes (too much to ask for I suppose!)
|
|
ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted May 26, 2009 03:32 AM |
|
|
@SKPRIMUS: i think that you will have to guess about the ambiguous areas; the game does not allow for that level of detail!
@locksley: thanks for the compliment, you had some fairly good ideas as well in other threads.
|
|
Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
|
|
posted May 26, 2009 05:24 PM |
|
|
@SKPRIMUS
Like Ebbafan said you have to guess the terrain. The battle will be on the tile where the defending creature or hero is. Try to look at the ground under your enemy.
The obstacles depends on the terrain. The dwarven tunnels have no obstacles, but the others seem to get a random amount of obstacles within a special range. I think that lava terrain tends to give much obstacles, but on grass there can be anything from no obstacles to lots of them.
Quote:
PS. it would also have been good to know the the in-game movement points remaining for heroes (too much to ask for I suppose!)
It's not important to know the exact movement points since you can see how far your hero can move by clicking on the adventure map. There is also an indicator next to the portrait.
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted May 29, 2009 07:02 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
PS. it would also have been good to know the the in-game movement points remaining for heroes (too much to ask for I suppose!)
It's not important to know the exact movement points since you can see how far your hero can move by clicking on the adventure map. There is also an indicator next to the portrait.
@Locksley
tnks perhaps you can start your own tote school! 
what about the blue bar on portrait LOL
on less funny note, my thoughts were at a slightly deeper level & related to:
1. Trying to confirm terrain by seeing movement points expended (because can't confirm it by right-click in game)
2. Determining how far a hero can travel vs other heroes with/without travel boosters after I have already started movement (esp. enemy heroes with/without logs)
It is a pain when your movement leaves you one square short of target on day 7! {& what's with the adventure AI picking up resources on the diagonal}
If I had a choice, I would turn on the grid for adventure map too...
ofc, not important, just good to know, same as I would prefer if combat replays showed the grid which I don't seem to get when I watch them
|
|
Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
|
|
posted May 29, 2009 02:25 PM |
|
|
Well, it obviously was not too much to ask for.
The blue bar represents the hero's mana, and should not be confused with his/her movement points.
Unfortunately I have not yet reached Arcane Omniscience (I need one more level), and despite my great and unrivalled skills in Enlightenment, Intelligence and Mentoring, etc, etc, I cannot answer your other questions.
But I agree with that it would be a good thing to know.
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted May 30, 2009 04:40 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Unfortunately I have not yet reached Arcane Omniscience (I need one more level)...
I'd be happy to reach Advanced Wisdom
Can't get too good in H5 otherwise one might accidentally get Absolute Rudeness (enrage enemies plus frenzy enemies @ 5% but chance rises with time in battle) & its accompanying perk Thin-Skin (like etherealness @ 15%)
Anyway, I found out that one CAN know movement points remaining from Curio's cheat codes guide (good info pages there for mucking around)
So if you carefully count your movement & know terrain & do as per what Ebbafan says in noting down terrains for battles [right, as if many would do that more than once ...], then one can be close to cheating? [j/k]
|
|
|
|
