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| Thread: Dungeon faction magic or melee? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted August 28, 2008 08:57 PM |
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Quote:
I really wouldn't classify the Dungeon troops as fragile some don't have the best defense but they are not fragile. I think against high def factions magic works great because you can soften them up with magic and then send in all you troops to finish them off.
Dungeon is one of the most fragile town, inferno is another example.
I exclude necro.
I did not speak their potential as individual, it's just based on the final fight.
Yes magic can be used againts high def faction. But i talk about full melee with dungeon, with little back up from magic (such as TA or some summoning magic or light or sometimes dark, no destructive because this is full melee, but TA or summoning is enough).
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 05:57 AM |
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Edited by tann_141 at 05:57, 29 Aug 2008.
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ive always found that if you specialize in destructive magic.. even if its late game your damaging spells can still keep up.. empowered lucky meteor shower that can wipe out 2 or 3 stacks! of course this is pure magic... where all artifacts go towards spellpower and knowledge.. and your units are merely there to keep you alive 
still its risky because its hard to get warlocks luck.. and without it you are at a huge disadvantage 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 08:48 AM |
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try getting +SP perks instead of going for warlock's luck. 7 wasted levelups isn't something that great, unfortunately. Going for warlock's luck usually means missing an important skill early.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 29, 2008 09:18 AM |
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Warlocks Luck is great, but Afaik it only requires Soldier's Luck and Magic Resistance. It's quite easy to get with Warlocks, only Runemage can get it easier (If I remember well, they only need Soldier's Luck). Anyway, Luck is a powerfull skill that's definately worth it. If you get Luck simply try to get Warlock's Luck. It can be postponed to lategame though, was Warlocks rule in Early-Mid game. As their advantage fades when the game continues, Warlock's Luck will greatly help. Don't wait too long (with attacking) though, as you only can be certain of victory in early-early game.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 09:21 AM |
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trust me it's better to go for enlightenment and logistics early that get screwed with warlock's luck with nearly no SP/knowledge, slow movement or non-expert destruction magic ;/
and if you want purely magical warlock (which is what getting warlock's luck suggests), luck is useless.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 29, 2008 09:28 AM |
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Well, Warlock's Luck's main uses are:
1) Avoiding a disadvantage in End-game
2) Compensating a lack of Magic (like with a Might build)
That's all.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 11:18 AM |
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The problem is that the standard magical warlock has a set of "must haves" that are of higher priority than any other skill.
In most cases it looks like that:
Expert Enlightenment, intelligence
Expert Logistics, Swift mind
Expert Destruction, Secrets & Ignite
Expert Sorcery
Without any of those, your spellcasting will not be that great (assuming you play a standard magician that is). And to get all of those you need level 22. So as you see, there is little room for warlock's luck, despite it's a great skill. It takes 8 levelups to get it, and it forces you to take useless perks like magic resistance, soldier's luck or dark ritual. If you take the "short route", you may find yourself without swift mind and enlightenment, for instance (slow movement, slow first action, low on mana, way worse SP). If you try to get it late, it's possible, but it won't happen before you reach level 30 or so, which isn't something common on many maps.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 11:35 AM |
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Quote:
Well, Warlock's Luck's main uses are:
1) Avoiding a disadvantage in End-game This is achieved through elemental chains
2) Compensating a lack of Magic (like with a Might build) lack of magic for warlock???
That's all.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 29, 2008 11:50 AM |
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@ Samiekl: As Doomforge pointed out, the best Skills for Warlocks are Enlightement, Destructive, Sorcery and Logistics. If you make a might build, this is: Leadership, Defence, Attack (or even War Machines? ) you'll automatically skip one of those skills, thus weakening you're Spell damaging potential.Lucky Spells can compensate, and I personally favour Warlock's Luck with a might Oriented build.
Furthermore, powerfull as Warlocks are in the endgame, their armies are Weak and lack numbers to last long. The Warlock needs to outcast his opponent, and Lucky Spells can prove to be vital for this.
@ Doomforge: Sadly, I have to agree. There is only ONE hero that can get to Warlock's luck soon (without Witch huts, and consorts), and that's Vayshan. Still, he needs at least another FOUR levels to get it.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:18 PM |
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For hybrids, you don't have to take sorcery, logistics (although I find it a pain).. You can do well with destructive + enlightenment, which leaves place for three more skills. You can also skip destructive completely if you feel confident enough (but I'd still take enlightenment).
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:24 PM |
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Logistics and especially swiftmind is a must for might also. Just to hit a fireball with master fire fast.
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Elvin
Admirable
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Endless Revival
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posted August 29, 2008 12:26 PM |
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LMAO, Lexxan is lecturing samiekl on dungeon builds! Then again samiekl is a noob
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:28 PM |
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Quote:
Then again samiekl is a noob
So true... 3 suicides in the last 3 games
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:30 PM |
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Quote:
Logistics and especially swiftmind is a must for might also. Just to hit a fireball with master fire fast.
That's why I wrote it's a pain. But you can throw a fireball without swift mind, while you can't throw a fireball without destructive, so I guess destructive has higher priority.
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Elvin
Admirable
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Endless Revival
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posted August 29, 2008 12:30 PM |
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Whoa you must have had a really unlucky period. Oh well you'll kick my butt in the cup anyway 
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:31 PM |
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I rarely leave logistic, this one is very useful, for all factions.
Maybe i just hate being slow (slow to creep, slow to move, etc).
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:34 PM |
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Quote:
That's why I wrote it's a pain. But you can throw a fireball without swift mind, while you can't throw a fireball without destructive, so I guess destructive has higher priority.
Yes, but throwing a fireball after the lizards turn is crap. The thing is to hit with lizards against 0 defense (50% from master of fire and 50% from special) and with dragons against reduced defense, until they start falling.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:37 PM |
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true. Swift mind feels such a necessity in most of my recent games. I try to get it for every faction. Because what is the point of your hero casting a spell when the battle is already done? ~~
That always annoyed me in academy. No log = wizard acting after his opponent and his army = little use for tactical spells. It hurt when Maeve owned me totally (swift mind + that super haste of hers + staff of netherworlds... come on lol her army acted twice before I could even think about something )
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:45 PM |
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Quote:
Whoa you must have had a really unlucky period. Oh well you'll kick my butt in the cup anyway
Correction, i'll kick my own butt anyway.
Doomforge, academy (and necro) have something that other towns don't have, the power to win a game when everything appears lost.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 29, 2008 12:57 PM |
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I didn't notice that power - I had my butt handed to me and I couldn't do a damn thing about it  (well, on art of war, you have plenty of time to develop your town, good map for haven if you ask me )
I'll ask him for the replay of him breaking through the garrison so you can see for yourself how little I could do. I won't post the final battle, too shameful
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