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| Thread: WotLK Intro Cinematic (MUST SEE) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 26, 2008 11:27 PM |
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Lol the quotes from Wc3 was great (playing it again now, I am on Legacy of the Damned) and the best qutoe is this:
"Have my regards to hell - you son of a snow!" - Sylvanas Windrunner to King Arthas Menethil.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 26, 2008 11:51 PM |
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Some quotes were from monty python. Though, it's very brave and recognisable and sometimes funny, it's a bit sad when people quote monty python out of context...
Anyways, I'm not defending or attacking either party (except warcraft three off cousre) just giving my opinion in this discussion on what's fair to say...
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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ChaosReigns
Hired Hero
Rather inept necromancer
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posted August 27, 2008 04:35 AM |
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Saying that Warhammer is about "good" vs. "evil" shows ignorance regarding that fantasy's lore, the Warcraft series, particularly Warcraft 1 and 2 (both of which I've played) is far more a story about the "evil" orcs against the "good" humans.
Don't mistake order and chaos for good and evil. All of the factions in Warhammer are somewhat less than noble (for the most part). Elves are fickle and arrogant, the hearts of men are easily corrupted (to quote LotR) and the daemons of Warhammer are at the least as violent and brutal and devious as those of the Burning Legion.
Xerox, the impression that I get is that perhaps your intense love of Warcraft is skewing your opinions. Keep in mind also that there are a number of similarities between Warhammer and Warcraft, and also between Starcraft and Warhammer 40,000, before you start hammering worlds and franchises about which you clearly know very little.
In any case, as for my opinion, both of the CGI movies have their merits, and objectively speaking I'd say that the Warhammer movie is more exciting and intense while the Warcraft movie is more theatrical and ominous. To me which game will be better is completely irrelevant when comparing and contrasting their trailers and I honestly can't say which will be better, because I haven't been particularly following the development of either.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 27, 2008 12:04 PM |
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I agree with every word. Xerox doesn't even know of anything besides Warcraft and still he judges blindly
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 27, 2008 01:43 PM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 13:45, 27 Aug 2008.
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Meh, both sides in this argue are wrong, since both warcraft games+universe and warhammer games+lore(with the exception of several games with that title ) are great.
I must agree that WH setting is very complex and thus interesting, but WC as a young universe is extremely well going.
So just play what you like, WoW is great, money you ahve to pay for it isn't.
About WH mmorpg, i hope it will be good but i somehow doubt it can dethrone wow, simply because wow got there first and that sometimes matters more than advantage in quality.
Other than that, i await Fallout MMORPG 
About the video, is it just me or blizzard loves to use falling objects (snow, feathers, flowers) in their videos. They obviously mastered that particular part, now they are using it every chance.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 27, 2008 03:53 PM |
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If WH is free, then I'm bought.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted August 27, 2008 04:58 PM |
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If WH is free, then I'm a cyborg.
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 27, 2008 05:03 PM |
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I mean, free of online gaming fees... but I suppose that's also not gonna happen.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 05:10 PM |
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No, WAR costs money like all other MMOs (that are good)
Quote:
about the "evil" orcs against the "good" humans.
Lol you know nothing about Warcraft lore.
The orcs were evil at that time for a reason, they got corrupted by demon blood. The Demons used them to destroy Azeroth for them - because it would be to hard to transfer the entire Legion to Azeroth.
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the daemons of Warhammer are at the least as violent and brutal and devious as those of the Burning Legion.
All races are violent in war. But there is a reason the Burning Legion wants to attack Azeroth and consume the universe.
Okey I admit that I dont now very much of WAR. Because I was born 1995 and not 100.000 years ago - Warhammer was/is not super popular when I grew up.
Although the Daemons stirke me as "evil without reason".
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Warcraft is skewing your opinions. Keep in mind also that there are a number of similarities between Warhammer and Warcraft, and also between Starcraft and Warhammer 40,000, before you start hammering worlds and franchises about which you clearly know very little.
I agree. In the begining Blizzard wanted to buy Warhammer and Warcraft/Starcraft was orginally meant to Warhammer games.
But Workshop didnt want to sell Warhammer which was a mistake - War/Starcraft are more popular then Warhammer now.
For just beign around for 15-20 years its going great for them.
Also I didnt say that the Warhammer trailer is bad. I think its great and I enjoyed it very much and it was cool - but I thought that the WotLK trailer was greater.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted August 27, 2008 05:14 PM |
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If WH is free I will make a contributive thread and gain a QP 
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 05:43 PM |
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Wauw you really hate each other
Ill start with defending WC and SC - I love them both very much, SC more then WC because I played it more and know it better, but WC has great storyline and so on. WoW might have killed the lore a bit, but I still think it is enjoyable.
I have not played WH, except that horrible Future WH game (cant remember it) I did not like that! So I can not really say anything bad about it
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 27, 2008 06:39 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 18:40, 27 Aug 2008.
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Quote:
War/Starcraft are more popular then Warhammer now.
Largest mistake made in your life
EDIT: I'm not talking about Warhammer video games, obviously (which are not very good)
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted August 27, 2008 06:54 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:55, 27 Aug 2008.
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Seriously now, can we cut the "popularity" issue? That has absolutely nothing to do with quality or excellent lore. What are you going to say xerox? That Counter-Strike has excellent lore because it is very very popular?
Usually the popular ones with "noob" or "I pwn you" or "OMG look at my level!" means that they attract kiddos and nerds that don't even CARE about the lore.
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it has better lore or better anything. Marketing is also an issue. So please next time you want arguments for lore etc, just cut the "popularity" issue already -- it doesn't do any good and it certainly ain't going to convince those that are serious about a game or lore -- meaning people that actually think (about the game obviously)
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 27, 2008 06:56 PM |
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Quote:
War/Starcraft are more popular then Warhammer now.
Can you back this up?
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 27, 2008 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
War/Starcraft are more popular then Warhammer now.
Can you back this up?
Just look at the hordes and hordes of hooting fanboys. Enter any server (maybe not the roleplaying ones) and you'll see evidence that they have the largest amounts of hooting, blistering idiots. There are way too many.
It's not to say that everyone who plays WoW is inherently bad or incredibly thick, but you can bet your internal organs that most european players (I'm taking Belgium as my frame of reference, so shut up, while I make my point) are typically those spolied brats who play it, cus it's so overhyped and they just have to have that game. I pity their mothers. It's to say that I know that WoW is densely populated and that most people who I know who play WoW know nothing about other MMO's, are powergamers and have no idea about any prequels. [/troll][/ill-informed opinion]
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 27, 2008 08:51 PM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 20:55, 27 Aug 2008.
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Quote:
No, WAR costs money like all other MMOs (that are good)
Quote:
about the "evil" orcs against the "good" humans.
Lol you know nothing about Warcraft lore.
The orcs were evil at that time for a reason, they got corrupted by demon blood. The Demons used them to destroy Azeroth for them - because it would be to hard to transfer the entire Legion to Azeroth.
While i personally like Warcraft and its lore, i must agree that first 2 games were pure good versus evil.
All demon blood thing etc was introduced to lore retrospectively AFTER Warcraft 2, which was my favorite game for quite some time.
Also a note to some posters here, just because 75% (posters estimate) of Wow populace are indeed bad mannered kids and teens, it doesn't make a game bad nor the rest of us bad for playing it.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 27, 2008 08:54 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 20:56, 27 Aug 2008.
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Yes, the first two Warcraft games were so childish especially in lore
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 11:11 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:13, 27 Aug 2008.
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But still there was a reason for the Orcs bloodrage. They where not evil without any reason. They developed the lore further later.
Also I dont get what so wrong with the lore in WoW.
The only major character that has died by 25 players is Lady Vashj, all others got assitance.
For example Maiev executes Illidan and Akama helps you kill him (but soon the betrayer will become the betrayed...) .
But look at Warcraft 3. How many lore heroes didnt Arthas kill?
Uther, Tereneas, Muradin (even though he didnt truly die), Garithos, Anasterian Sunstrider etc.
People dont complain for that but if like Alextraza or Maiev kills a boss in WoW then its huge QQ all the time.
Also you seem to think strange.
I never mentioned that Warcraft is more popualr because of its history -.- ...
I even agreed back in the thread that Warhammer does have a much more complex universe because its like twice much older then Warcraft/Starcraft.
Im pretty sure that if Warcraft or Starcraft was just as old - their universe would be larger then Warhammer.
Cant you see how much the lore in Warcraft and Starcraft has developed the last 15-20 years?
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Also I mainly play Horde but also have some Alliance low levels and I have to say that Horde is much more mature and I even read in a famous site that most underaged persons (who are few, most people are acctualy 20-25) is on the Alliance side.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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ChaosReigns
Hired Hero
Rather inept necromancer
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posted August 27, 2008 11:52 PM |
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Quote:
Lol you know nothing about Warcraft lore.
The orcs were evil at that time for a reason, they got corrupted by demon blood. The Demons used them to destroy Azeroth for them - because it would be to hard to transfer the entire Legion to Azeroth.
I'd be willing to bet that I know a great deal more about the lore than you'd expect, the whole of the series up to Frozen Throne provided me with hours of enjoyment and I ALWAYS read the lore of games; you see, some people like to beat the jeezus out of things, I prefer to beat the jeezus out of things for or with a purpose and generally speaking storylines provide a purpose.
Now in regards to me knowing nothing about Warcraft's lore, I did indeed know that the Legion first used the Orcs in an attempt to weaken the nations of Azeroth and I also know that the Scourge succeeded where the Orcs failed. However, the Orcs were still very one-dimensional in Warcraft 1 and 2 at the least, regardless of how or why or when they were corrupted, they were still portrayed as the the ugly, evil brutes with little exception.
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All races are violent in war. But there is a reason the Burning Legion wants to attack Azeroth and consume the universe.
There is likewise a multiplicity of reasons that the followers of Chaos desire to burn the world and serve the Gods, whether it be a desire to achieve immortality, simple zealotry, a love of battle etc.
The daemons are manifestations of the Gods in the mortal world, and so the lesser daemons generally serve whatever goals their God is currently working towards while the greater daemons, who are sentient and often malevolent may have their own goals and desires or reasons for doing what they do.
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Okey I admit that I dont now very much of WAR. Because I was born 1995 and not 100.000 years ago - Warhammer was/is not super popular when I grew up.
Although the Daemons stirke me as "evil without reason".
Remember that I am not talking about the MMO here, I'm talking about the lore for the world created by Games Workshop, just as we are not talking only about WoW, but the lore of the whole Warcraft universe in its entirety. To be honest I can't tell whether the second sentence in that point was meant as a slight or what you believed you were accomplishing by posting that. In any case popularity has little relevance when evaluating the quality of written works or assessing the depth a of a given fiction. As for the daemons being "evil without reason" see the above section of my post.
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I agree. In the begining Blizzard wanted to buy Warhammer and Warcraft/Starcraft was orginally meant to Warhammer games.
But Workshop didnt want to sell Warhammer which was a mistake - War/Starcraft are more popular then Warhammer now.
For just beign around for 15-20 years its going great for them.
In regards to Warcraft and Starcraft originally being intended as Warhammer games, from what I've heard there is absolutely no evidence to back that story up and it was an "urban legend" created by overly enthusiastic fans with too much time on their hands.
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Also I didnt say that the Warhammer trailer is bad. I think its great and I enjoyed it very much and it was cool - but I thought that the WotLK trailer was greater.
I agree with this statement to an extent, however I would say that each trailer had facets that it did better than the other.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 28, 2008 02:42 AM |
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Well, I'm completely ok with Warcraft, and it's, like someone mentioned, shown remarkable progress as a young fantasy universe, but it simply can't surpass Warhammer's lore and detail yet. There's also a vast difference in the start:
Warcraft was a video game, you didn't really need long to learn it and it focused on casualness. They didn't expect that players would want a detailed backstory at the time, their goal was simply to provide some fun. As the series grew immensely popular, they started creating the lore itself.
Warhammer, however, was and always will be primarily a tabletop game, which makes the players learn much more complex rules and constantly calculate with stats themselves. Since all races were pretty different in terms of rules and playability, they couldn't put them all in the same book, so they created a main rulebook and started adding separate books for each faction. Of course, the goal was to make cash too, so they couldn't just put a few stats with some neat illustrations and charge 50 bucks for it. Thus they started with detailed unit descriptions, backstories, short stories, etcetera, which all added up to the basic story, and later cultivated into a universe where more or less each faction has as much lore as the entire Warcraft series has.
The thing is, all this trouble about fanboy fights began with the introduction of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k in video games. Warhammer is a newbie to PC gaming as much as Warcraft is a newbie to lore and history. Hence fans of both series found themselves conflicted by the apparent set of events. Warhammer is advancing in the field of video gaming as fast as Warcraft is advancing in the field of lore, but the fact that a lot of people fail to see is that they're simply different. You can't compare them. That's like comparing Star Wars and Matrix. They're both cool in their own ways.
Personally, what I always liked about Warhammer is that every race has its share of guilt. Bretonnia and the Empire, two supposedly goodly human factions, have been at war against each other quite a few times. Goodly Dwarfs and goodly High Elves also had their share of bloody conflicts. Empire has the Inquisition that is no less zealous, ruthless and brutal than the warriors of Chaos. In the end, Norsemen see nothing evil in worshiping Chaos, it's like vikings worshiping Thor and Odin. It's their way. Malekith (the king of the Dark Elves) was the prince of High Elves and the rightful heir to the throne; but the nobles, in their arrogance, denied him the throne against the law (and Malekith was actually good at the time), so he in turn started a civil war some time later (and became the leader of the Dark Elves). Orcs and ogres, much like Attila's Huns or the Golden Horde of our world, are nomadic peoples who raid and pillage for a living. Etcetera etcetera.
Actually, the weird thing about Warhammer is the feeling of it representing a world much like ours. You really have the feeling that all of that could've happened to our world too, if fantastic elements had been introduced to it. Even geography reminds of Earth a bit (Tomb Kings live in a place quite similar to Egypt; the Aztec-like Lizardmen in the southern fragment of the New World - which reminds of America; and Hordes of Chaos in... Canada ).
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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