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| Thread: To be ranged or not to be ranged? dungeon dilemma |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 01, 2008 09:55 PM |
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yeah by the time whoever your playing against has titans the destrictive magic can take any one out like that (snaps). And mages do to have melee penalty. from far away they are dangerous cause of there no range penalty but up close they are just a weak lvl 4.
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted September 01, 2008 10:52 PM |
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true but they can still cast fireball or fist of wrath from up close 
but i agree that they are weak once you start attacking them
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 01, 2008 11:25 PM |
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well I guess that it would pay off the go full melee then wouldn't it
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted September 02, 2008 01:04 AM |
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if you have the "firepower" in terms of spells then yes go full melee
and this works wonders because you arent really "wasting" a hero turn by taking out the archers because they are usually weak and can be eliminated (or reduced to very low numbers) by an AOE spell like fireball or meteor shower... so ur taking out other stacks
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 02, 2008 01:54 AM |
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yeah you could basicly hit a stack once then leave it to your me to finish off and blast away at another one.
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shadowfury
Hired Hero
Blade of Vengeance
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posted September 02, 2008 05:46 PM |
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Quote:
titans have no melee penalty while mages can use spells
still dungeon can afford to go all melee simply because the hero's destructive spells can eliminate the opponents ranged units quite easily
fighting against inferno with no shooters= bad idea;
familiars have high initiave tough= no spells, no shooters, only meele combat, pit spawns on the battlefield make it very anoying & difficould.
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 02, 2008 06:12 PM |
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I just did a duel on ToE against the inferno with no shooters and I did lose. but I think that I could have won if I did some things differently and yes shooters would have helped but I still think that in the long run full melee is best.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 05:49 PM |
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Because dungeon ranged and melee units are its lv 1 and 6.
I'll give my opinion.
Sure, if you play 100% magic dungeon, full melee is ok, full ranged is also ok, this is just a matter of preference. I prefer full melee though.
But if i play barbarous dungeon, ranged is a good thing to have. So does the hybrid. Barbarous dungeon = dungeon without any magic at all, but TA is still welcomed, yup it's light magic but i consider it as a tactical magic which doesn't belong to any school.
Invisible is indeed a good strength, but it is also a weakness, by going invisible, enemy option of target are fewer, thus making the visible units goes down faster. And it also cost 1 turn.
If i play barbar mode, i welcome any ranged support, be it matriarch or assasin, especially matriarch. My no 1 reason is not only their ranged support, but they can serve as surprise or a good distraction, especially if they mess the atb in my favor, their support can give me victory. It does happen to me that messed atb because of matriarch give me more victory than because of mistress.
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 03, 2008 06:16 PM |
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I will also go for a hybrid sometimes but not usualy with assasins they are just too weak with the range penalty to do much damage from far away. but I agree that sometimes the matriarch is the better way to go, sometimes you just need the extra ranged support. But if you don't it's worth it to get the mistress if just to watch them walk down the battle field
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Min-Guitsu
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 03, 2008 07:36 PM |
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I always choose stalkers. They're great at creeping and in my opinion better in end battles as well.
However I always choose shadow matriarchs and that's for a very odd and annoying reason. Whenever a shadow mistress moves it goes waaaaaay too slow. It takes her like 5 seconds just to get her ass six squares further. Does anyone have the same problem? If there's a 'cure' for that I'd love to know it, because impatient me sticks to matriarchs now every time I play dungeon... 
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 03, 2008 08:02 PM |
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My game does that too I think they do it on pourpose its their sexy walk
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dainbramaged
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 04, 2008 07:16 AM |
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The theory that having ranged backup is all well and good... if dungeon's ranged units were actually any good. If you have a specific target you'd need to kill (such as AA's), that role's fulfilled by your hero effectively enough.
Assassins have the lowest damage output of all ranged units, which is marginally compensated by their poison attack. Stalkers are still good creepers, even with the 3.1 nerf.
Matriarchs are expensive and their damage is mediocre at best ("better" by damage output than around a third - half of all ranged units, which is pretty horrible for a tier 6). OTOH, mistresses are sturdier, deal full damage and have no retal whilst still under invisibility, and can actually put their whip strike to use.
This is exacerbated by the fact that you're unlikely to be getting archery, as you'll be sacrificing a more useful skill - tactics, retribution, power of speed, or even cold steel - to get it.
Finally, the invisibility of stalkers/mistresses can potentially drag the battle on for another 2 turns, if it comes down to it (and you haven't already burned your invisibility), which is an extra 2-3 spells you can hopefully kill your opponent with.
EDIT: I generally have combat set to 3x speed, so I don't find the witches' movement to be too annoying.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 04, 2008 11:09 AM |
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I'd still go for dragons and build witches later, they are good for their spells but you don't have to have them numerous to cast slow or confusion well.
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dainbramaged
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 04, 2008 12:05 PM |
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That was intended as a comparison between matriarchs and mistresses - I didn't mention their spellcasting abilities as they have the same (not including invisibility) spells. Hence I was referring only to their damage, rather than support capabilities.
I do tend to fill whatever spare slots I have with witch pairs, certainly.
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 04, 2008 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
I'd still go for dragons and build witches later, they are good for their spells but you don't have to have them numerous to cast slow or confusion well.
yeah thats what i usually do drags are awsome, and the witch building is so pricey .
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shadowfury
Hired Hero
Blade of Vengeance
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posted September 05, 2008 05:06 PM |
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2 things why invisibility's bad
i think its still better to be ranged, and thats why:
-in a battle against some AA or other tier 7s...or really strong opponent
1)i mean you use you "creepy" ivisibility which is kinda "nice" like dungeon style, you move your sneeky misssstress forward, and before you know it, you're disguised! your enemy (especially computer players suprisingly "guess" where your creepy stalkers and misstresses are...)
2) or (you attack meele way and get rid of that 1 or 2 of the tier7 creature and then well you're stalkers and misstresses die in the process of the next turn.... so thats why we have the hydras, to protect all ranged dungeon units and survive for al long long time  .... invisibility may be ultra cool, still not for dungeon.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 05, 2008 05:08 PM |
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You are mistaken.
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shadowfury
Hired Hero
Blade of Vengeance
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posted September 05, 2008 05:10 PM |
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Quote:
You are mistaken.
well i dont want to argue(sp?) here and make you angry, but proove it.
damage isn't always the best thing in combat.
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted September 06, 2008 12:52 PM |
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Stalkers are a teir 1 and tier 1's just arn't built for survival. and unlike gremlins and skellys who are ranged lvl 1's you don't have a huge growth rate so onot as much damage will be done by one shot. All in all thought stalkers die fast they do much more damage than their ranged counterparts.
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I use big words to make myself
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 06, 2008 01:10 PM |
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@shadowfury
I have nothing to prove, it's a matter of experience. If you play against a good warlock player you'll see for yourself.
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