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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 01, 2013 08:06 PM |
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted October 01, 2013 08:55 PM |
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Thanks man you are a blessing to all of us 
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none of my business.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 02, 2013 09:41 AM |
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
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posted October 03, 2013 02:49 PM |
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Edited by Trogdor at 16:24, 04 Oct 2013.
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This next one reminds me of a certain Simpsons episode.
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"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 04, 2013 07:09 PM |
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
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posted October 05, 2013 03:13 PM |
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Mild swearing
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"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 06, 2013 10:44 AM |
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
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posted October 06, 2013 12:29 PM |
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"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 06, 2013 01:01 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 13:02, 06 Oct 2013.
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Man I remember reading Pearls before Swine in Swedish a long time ago, must be an EFFING HELL to translate with all the word puns Probably my favourite comic in this thread btw.
Damn you guys are dedicated btw.
EDIT:
Besides Sinfest of course, Sinfest vincit omnia.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 06, 2013 01:24 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:32, 06 Oct 2013.
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You really like the new sinfest? I'm not so sure anymore. Sinfest has always been whimsical but often enough there was more to it, making you think twice. Whimsical is the wrong word acutally since it often handled very delicate and serious subjects through humor. And it did it absurdly well.
Often enough it was also just not very subliminal which is okay obviously it all works aslong as it's balanced and Sinfest was just so ****ing good at what it did.
These days Ishida feels a whole lot more preachy and judgmental than he usually did. Also significantly less subliminal, even in the big sunday pieces we get. It's the judgmental that has been bugging me a lot these past 6 months. I understand preaching, I understand wanting to get a point across what I don't understand is the wanton self-flagellation over being male. Don't get me wrong it's only fair that he makes jokes about men too but I feel that it's been a long time since his take on being a male was lighthearted, shown through satire or done without heavy handed critique. The justification for it all being that he's a man and therefor overprivileged unable to cope if he is not in position of power and dominance or show compassion to those around him. All because "the patriarchy" is brainwashing them (all men) into believeing they are superior. When was the last time you saw one of the male characters do something that wasn't instantly condemned as selfish or that they didn't do due to some sense of entitlement/superiority (little devil being the exception to this, due to the fact that he got his memory wiped and has a nice female mentor hanging around guideing him each step of the way)?
I understand that Ishida has some valid points. His stereotyping doesn't come out of nowhere he's too clever a man for that. What I do not get is why I should keep reading about how terrible men are, how disgusting and emotionally dead we are and how we suppress women because it's what we should do for almost a year now. There is no lightheartedness to it anymore. Just straight judgement for being a guy. I've found it quite sad. Maybe I'm missing something.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 06, 2013 01:45 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 13:57, 06 Oct 2013.
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I enjoy the new Sinfest because well, I agree with almost every point he makes 
I think Ishida has made it pretty clear that it's the patriarchal brainwashing that is at fault, not the men of the series itself, for example with Slick's evil, macho side hiding at the other side of the mirror, it's not HIM, it's the patriarchy. I for one don't feel judged at all, with all the priviligies I experience as a white, heterosexual male I can take a bit of criticism, hell I NEED IT.
The only thing I dislike is the dudebro-hater-gang or whatever, that's a pretty bad feminist stereotype of almost misandric radical feminists, very unneccessary imo. Not saying it doesn't exist in real life, but if he's working for a feminist cause then I don't see the sense in making them the good guys, cuz they're just as sexist as the men.
I can see why its longtime fans can feel a bit alienated though, I certainly don't recommend the early Sinfest to my feminist friends ^^
It was light hearted earlier, but also quite sexist and stereotyping. I liked it back then, I don't like it now. Amusingly, Ishida's own feminist awakening has kinda synched with my own, so I guess it's not weird that I like it so much.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 06, 2013 02:12 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:25, 06 Oct 2013.
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No surprise that you're behind him in that regard since you do seem to be in a similar place as him. I do not mean to sound like the entitled brat that can't take it now that Ishida is making fun of me and not the others anymore but I do believe that there is quite a difference in his approach to how he he used to do satire. I'll try to explain.
Look I said I agree that we (men in general and then feel free to load the whole white privilege etc. etc. on) should be criticized. I also said that it obviously doesn't come out of nowhere but I fail to understand is why blaming the "patriarchy" makes it any better. Basically when he just makes his male characters puppets or speakerphones for it, then how does that make the criticism of them any less heavy handed? They were well established characters that were real people with depth and personality due to how they (inter)acted in the comic. So what we forget about all that now because Ishida has an agenda? Suddenly Slick & Co are not personalities anymore because they come to represent the "everyman" in the most literal sense of the word as a dominance obsessed, sexually aggresive, emotionally dead, superficial, woman-degrading animal?
That is not okay. Hell Slick (AND MEN IN GENERAL) is no saint everything I just listed would be perfectly valid points (not just about Slick but about men in general) to make , even when they are free of all pretense of satire or humor. But not if that is all you get for almost a year then it isn't about revealing a hidden/not talked about truth anymore, then it becomes about judgement. Not the good kind either.
I understand that you agree with his portrayal of men and I respect you for many reasons more than your sick photoshop windsurfing skills Adrius but that is not a healthy self image to have.
It's our responsibility to know where our faults lie and comics such as Sinfest, Calvin & Hobbes and a load of others, can be great tools to unveil these mistakes and help us overcome them. It's what makes good comics exceptional, that level of human understanding.
But when it becomes less about revealing things and more about some agenda then the magic is gone. Because if Ishida has not been on some very thinly veiled crusade this past year I don't know what he has been doing. Then it's just about beating/shocking something into you.
EDIT:
Quote:
It was light hearted earlier, but also quite sexist and stereotyping.
That's my entire point. There is nothing light hearted whatsoever in the sexist stereotyping he is doing now.
There is nothing to smile about what he does now unless you subscribe to his (in my opinion) very unhealthy image of manhood.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 06, 2013 02:26 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 14:28, 06 Oct 2013.
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Ok, I think I understand where you're coming from. It's certainly weird to do such a transformation of the characters so suddenly, especially considering their personalities were as you say already established. I guess if the author comes to some sort of realization about himself and the world (as seen in his "well I was naive" kinda self-insight strips) it's hard for him to continue on in the same way... but he could have eased into it a lot better instead of you know, having Monique shave her hair and drop her babe persona and introducing characters that support his cause left and right and everything.
It's blunt, lacks finesse.
I don't mind what he's done though since I don't think any real character depth has been lost, and I don't mind his obvious agenda, I don't even mind him being judgmental. So I dunno what more to say really.
I guess I... disagree? Yeah 
EDIT:
Also my self-image is effing awesome, thank you 
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 06, 2013 02:41 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:57, 06 Oct 2013.
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Quote:
I can see why its longtime fans can feel a bit alienated though, I certainly don't recommend the early Sinfest to my feminist friends ^^
See this is what I don't get. I understand that you're all enlightened Adrius and you see through men to the bottomless abyss of debauchery that we truely are. But please give me some credit will you? This is not me being a disgruntled male long time reader that doesn't like being made fun of.
I fail to see how you've taken me up on any point I've made about his story telling, from what I understand what you've been trying to tell me is basically: "Well, it's different now you just don't like it anymore cause you're the one being made fun off" when I have done my best to explain that that isn't the case. Maybe I wasn't clear enough or maybe that is just exactly what I sound like to you. Was really hoping you could help me understand a thing or two here, especially since I knew you were sort of on the feminism train. Pity.
You just said it yourself, it's blunt and it lacks finesse. Qualities I hope we can agree Sinfest was made up of in truckloads. That loss is what I have been lamenting. I don't mind the message (for the umpteenth time) he could be going on about how bimbo-tastic women are, if he would do it with same same unimaginative, unrefined, dead spirit he does it with now I'd still complain.
What's regrettable is that people gladly embrace the (significant) decline in finesse and storytelling because they like hearing what he's saying. One can get a parrot for that, don't need an artist of significant skill (that goes above and beyond drawing) for that.
One thing I valued so much about Sinfest was that Tatsuya would show me things. Between all the obivously racist, sexist, stereotyping, any other unmoral adjective you can think of, there was always more than just that. If there hadn't been Sinfest would not be a great comic.
For a long time most of what he's done has been pointing and shouting loudly "LOOK! LOOK, YOU SEE HOW HORRIBLE YOU ARE? FEEL BAD YET?GOOD, YOU SHOULD!". I prefered it when he would just tap you on the shoulder or even better just lead you towards a realization, letting you make the final steps yourself.
I understand that there is a time and a place for everything. There is a time for bluntness and for shocking people. But if that's pretty much all you've been doing for a good year now? Somewhere the timed for that passed, either he can't find his way back to finesse anymore but I doubt that. My guess is he just doesn't want to anymore, atleast not for now. Sort of Monique in that way where he feels he has something to atone for or make up for lost time by being super extra hardcore.
EDIT:
Quote:
I don't mind what he's done though since I don't think any real character depth has been lost
We've prolly been reading two different comics then. Monique used to be a person (she had evolved quite a bit from her token piece of ass days) same with Slick now they're just the corresponding embodiments of what Ishida believes men and women to be (Monique overly so most likely because she just "understood" so she has a lot of ground to make up for and Slick... well he's just a victim of the Patriarchy now. Not like he did his fair share of soul searching during the history of the comic).
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 06, 2013 03:19 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 15:35, 06 Oct 2013.
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I'm not trying to be disrespectful by writing such short replies, but if we don't disagree with the message then I don't really see the point? What you're obviously concerned about is that the storytelling technique has become worse.
I think I've conveyed why I think Sinfest is still good, and I think I understand why you no longer like it. I can't argue with it, in fact I think I've made clear that I agree with you on many points. I don't see how we can go much further than that.
And no I don't think you're a typical white offended male who can't handle criticism, I hope you don't think I think that.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted October 06, 2013 05:15 PM |
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I feel the same way Az does - I don't like the way it shoves everything down my throat.
Yes, I'm happy that it took on a 'mission' and I agree with most of the problems it raises but after a while it feels like beating a dead horse harder and harder. Now I know the horse isn't anywhere near dead but come on, I want to see what happens with Criminny, Lil' E and all the deities.
I just hope Ishida stops tunnel visioning on this matter so much and picks up some other issues too. I don't remember when was the last time I felt fuzzy inside after reading a big coloured Crimm/Fushia panel.
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none of my business.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 06, 2013 05:37 PM |
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Luls you people ranting about a comic.
I got to agree on it though. I read sinfest becuase it's good. It makes me laugh.
It has been failing at this a lot lately. Strips are just meh more often than before. Should have just stick to making fun of things instead of preaching.
Want more buddha and dragon!
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 06, 2013 06:39 PM |
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Quote:
Luls you people ranting about a comic.
Less about a comic rather than the artist sacrificing quality for... I don't know what for. Not anymore.
Also in case it didn't come across earlier I'm not mad at you or anything Ad. I was just hoping for a bigger discussion, but I dunno just don't know what to do with your replies. I realize that I might have been a bit passionate and it might have been off putting. Ment no offese to you or your opinions. All I understood from what you said is that you didn't see much personality in the people in the first place, that you can see how the new direction wouldn't appeal to "old readers" and that while you acknowledge that it's blunt and unimaginative you still enjoy reading it mostly due to the fact that you enjoy the message.
In all of this I don't believe you've said why you still think it's a good comic. But that's okay you obviously don't need to and I might just not have understood you in the first place in case you already did say it.
But it doesn't really matter, good for you that you still enjoy it.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted October 06, 2013 09:54 PM |
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So I decided yo go check out sinfest to see what you guys are on about. What I found was noisy ads. Yep, definitely downhill.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 06, 2013 10:24 PM |
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This Popular Thread is pages long: 
