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| Thread: Whatta hell! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted September 22, 2008 03:38 PM |
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Overall conclusion
- A Hero without Swift Mind acts between creatures of Initiative 7 and 14 and will on average act at the same time as a creature of Initiative 10.
- A Hero with Swift Mind acts between creatures of Initiative 10 and 20 and will on average act at the same time as a creature of Initiative 14.
Waw, exactly thats what I wanted to write
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted September 22, 2008 09:52 PM |
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A lot of calculations there Alc
But I just have a logical question: if you start with 0.25 ATB, then you have only three quarters instead of four to "fill" before your turn. Doesn't that mean that it's 25% faster? Therefore, the same as having 25% more initiative?
Or actually it's 4/3 = 33% faster?
It is actually 33 % faster, like you say.
And then you have to take into account that you normally start with "average" 0.125, and with Swift Mind "average" 0.375, so that you need to fill only 0.625 (instead of normally 0.875). Hence you act 0.875 / 0.625 = 140 % faster, i.e. 40 % higher (average) initiative, hence I = 14.
Great explanation, someone should put it in a manual. Yet there's one thing:
when calculating average initiative of swift minded hero, you must take normal starting atb position (0.25) since units initiative is calculated not taking into account random atb value (which means they don't take 0.125 atb bonus when expressing units' initiative).
Which leads to 13.3 as an average swift minded hero initiative.
I could be wrong of course, but it seems more logical this way.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 22, 2008 10:17 PM |
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Quote:
Yet there's one thing:
when calculating average initiative of swift minded hero, you must take normal starting atb position (0.25) since units initiative is calculated not taking into account random atb value (which means they don't take 0.125 atb bonus when expressing units' initiative).
Which leads to 13.3 as an average swift minded hero initiative.
I could be wrong of course, but it seems more logical this way.
I still think that 14 is the best meassure to compare, because the Hero will have same starting conditions as a creature with this initiative - on average. It's true that unit Initiative does not take the 0.125 bonus into consideration when stating the initiative number, but that's irrelevant because ATB and Initiative is not the same.
The confusing thing is that we want to make the two things directly comparable - a creature with Initiative 11 goes before Initiative 10 etc. - but when we think about it, we know that's not necessarily true. In that sense, it seems to us that a creature with Initiative 10 may in fact have an "effective Initiative" of 12 in the first round if it's lucky with the ATB roll - however, that doesn't really change its initiative, it's just that Initiative doesn't tell when you act but how often - and keep in mind that a Hero WITH Swift Mind still has an Initiative of 10 - he'll just have his first turn sooner.
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 01:18 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Yet there's one thing:
when calculating average initiative of swift minded hero, you must take normal starting atb position (0.25) since units initiative is calculated not taking into account random atb value (which means they don't take 0.125 atb bonus when expressing units' initiative).
Which leads to 13.3 as an average swift minded hero initiative.
I could be wrong of course, but it seems more logical this way.
I still think that 14 is the best meassure to compare, because the Hero will have same starting conditions as a creature with this initiative - on average. It's true that unit Initiative does not take the 0.125 bonus into consideration when stating the initiative number, but that's irrelevant because ATB and Initiative is not the same.
The confusing thing is that we want to make the two things directly comparable - a creature with Initiative 11 goes before Initiative 10 etc. - but when we think about it, we know that's not necessarily true. In that sense, it seems to us that a creature with Initiative 10 may in fact have an "effective Initiative" of 12 in the first round if it's lucky with the ATB roll - however, that doesn't really change its initiative, it's just that Initiative doesn't tell when you act but how often - and keep in mind that a Hero WITH Swift Mind still has an Initiative of 10 - he'll just have his first turn sooner.
After taking another look into our posts, I realize that it was the only way to compare units initiative with starting initiative of swift minded hero. Taking into account bonus that hero gains from 0.25 extra atb position by assuming both sides had equal, half luck with atb line(+0.125). So, disregard that: "Yet there's one thing:..." and see if someone can put your explanation (or at least range and average initative of a hero with or without swift mind) into manual. Nice work 
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