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| Thread: Another School Shooting in Finland |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted September 23, 2008 03:13 PM |
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Whats up with comparing the emo -subculture people to school shooters?
I thought being emo was all about drowning in your own self pity, telling off everyone who tries to have some sympathy for you, dying your hair black, listening to Linking Park  , cutting yourself etc. Not going off your way to kill people. 
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 03:51 PM |
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I agree with TheDeath.
Columbine Massacre:
Michael Moore: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?
Marilyn Manson: I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did.
So I think there must be something wrong. Unless the shooter wanted to be a copycat.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 04:26 PM |
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Who knows about these things and why they do it. To me they are just sick ****s!
I'm sick of my stomack of their "reasons" anyway. Why didn't police take his guns away before it was too late? He was in interigation day before this happen and they let him loose. No real evidence tough he had said he would do this... I don't blame this on cops, they did their job by the law. Should have been stopped but nobody did, thats it. World is a cold place indeed 
@William: Was i really that misleading? That was the information given at the time. But, no more of that..
Strenght for the parents and relatives.
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Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 04:36 PM |
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What are your gun policy in Finland?
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 23, 2008 04:42 PM |
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Quote:
Who knows about these things and why they do it. To me they are just sick ****s!
Have it ever crossed your mind that this might be one of the reasons that they did it? They act the way they do because we do nothing, not to stop them once they do it, but to look at their problems. We ignore ignore ignore... until we realize that we have to stop something which shouldn't have been in the first place. That is also for me kinda ****.
We only think about our problems and those that are "not like us" and have different problems, we ignore. No wonder there are so many "crazy" people out there -- crazy is often a synonym for different. When we find them crazy we also are intolerant.
I don't like to pass blame just easy like that. Things are a lot deeper and we are responsible for some of them (not saying that some of them might not truly be wacked!).
like we pass blame on games and other kind of **** -- we are being so intolerant and arrogant sometimes and draw assumptions about their behavior, which is clearly wrong, like someone above said "No one listens to them"; they all speculate.
Look how often we "use" these tragedies for such egoistic purposes and other **** to be in the highlight and give us a "reason" for our ****.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 23, 2008 05:19 PM |
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9 killed in school shooting in Finland
HELSINKI —
A gunman opened fire at a vocational school for adults in western Finland on Tuesday before shooting himself, police said. Finnish media reported nine people were killed and the gunman was wounded.
The shootings began just before 11 a.m. local time as about 150 students went to class in Kauhajoki, 180 miles northwest of Helsinki. Witnesses said panic broke out as the hooded gunman entered the school and began firing.
“Within a short space of time I heard several dozen rounds of shots, in other words it was an automatic pistol,” school janitor Jukka Forsberg told broadcaster YLE. “I saw some female students who were wailing and moaning and one managed to escape out of the back door.”
Broadcaster STT, citing police at the school, reported nine people were killed, that the school building was on fire and the gunman reportedly had explosives on him.
Jussi Muotio, superintendent of the Kauhajoki police, confirmed that several people had been wounded but could not immediately confirm the deaths. “The incident is over now,” Muotio said.
Vesa Nyrhinen, detective superintendent from the local police, declined to say how seriously the gunman was injured. “He was wounded by his own bullets,” he said.
College rector Timo Varmola told YLE there were 150 students in the school at the time.
The shootings happened almost a year after another gunman killed eight people and himself at a school in southern Finland, an attack that triggered a fierce debate about gun laws in this Nordic nation with deep-rooted traditions of hunting in the sub-Arctic wilderness.
With 1.6 million firearms in private hands, Finland is an anomaly in Europe, lagging behind only the United States and Yemen in civilian gun ownership, studies show.
Finnish media said YouTube clips of a man firing a gun appeared to be linked to the shooting. In one of them, a young man wearing a leather jacket fires several shots in rapid succession with a handgun at what appears to be a shooting range.
The posting was made five days before the shooting and the location was given as Kauhajoki. The posting included a message saying: “Whole life is war and whole life is pain. And you will fight alone in your personal war.”
The person who posted the clip identified himself as a 22-year-old with the name “Mr. Saari.” He also posted three other clips of himself firing a handgun in the past three weeks.
Clips from the 1999 Columbine school shootings in Colorado were listed among his favorite videos.
Police could not immediately confirm whether the postings were linked to Tuesday’s shooting.
Last year, Pekka-Eric Auvinen, described by police as a bullied 18-year-old outcast, opened fire at his high school in southern Finland on Nov 7. He killed six students, a school nurse and the principal before ending his own life with a gunshot to the head.
Finnish investigators have said Auvinen left a suicide note for his family and foreshadowed his attack in YouTube postings.
After Auvinen’s rampage, the government said it would raise the minimum age for buying guns from 15 to 18, but insisted there was no need for sweeping changes to Finland’s gun laws.
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Card_Ximinez
Famous Hero
no
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posted September 23, 2008 06:22 PM |
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I just heard about this. It's terrible. 
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wtf this still exists
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted September 23, 2008 07:33 PM |
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Quote:
Have it ever crossed your mind that this might be one of the reasons that they did it? They act the way they do because we do nothing, not to stop them once they do it, but to look at their problems. We ignore ignore ignore... until we realize that we have to stop something which shouldn't have been in the first place. That is also for me kinda ****.
We only think about our problems and those that are "not like us" and have different problems, we ignore. No wonder there are so many "crazy" people out there -- crazy is often a synonym for different. When we find them crazy we also are intolerant.
I don't like to pass blame just easy like that. Things are a lot deeper and we are responsible for some of them (not saying that some of them might not truly be wacked!).
like we pass blame on games and other kind of **** -- we are being so intolerant and arrogant sometimes and draw assumptions about their behavior, which is clearly wrong, like someone above said "No one listens to them"; they all speculate.
Look how often we "use" these tragedies for such egoistic purposes and other **** to be in the highlight and give us a "reason" for our ****.
Alright, let's see.
First of all, this is a horrible tragedy that never should happen again.
Second of all, how the hell is this possible? I'm serious. What drives you so far as to just go out and randomly kill anyone you encounter?
Now, I could just say that they are all crazy ****, but that's unfair and doesn't deal with the situation, but is mere evasion. (If I just describe things with one word in my school, I fail too  , so let's reason)
Death, What you say moved me...
because you said that the world sucks 
It really doesn't as long as there's ice cream, children, education (let's forget about love, since that's what they're usually missing out on) and the internet. So let me just say that I'm sceptical, when people are down, because life is treating them so badly. I'm sure it doesn't. Allow me to elaborate:
In pre-world war times, this probably would've never happened. Why? because everyone becomes a stranger and noone doesn't trust anyone, thus making it impossible to actually just get to know someone, because people would rather spray stingy liquid in your face, then talking to you. Still, there's no reason for life to get you down. you can meet people over the net or at parties (but be careful, since even then especially then some people are carrying around stingy liquid.)
people say it's TV and moder, technology, but that's not true. Already in 1900, we can find texts and fairy tales that symbolise the lonelines in a constantly growing society. Because we are no longer a flock or a herd, we can no longer talk about, say, our problems and have to lock them away. Add the fact that some people want to forget their problems so much that they pass it on to others.
A friend of mine can be classified as a bully, but he has problems, despite the fact he lives in a rich family, has many friends etc etc. He always has to compete with his older brother and he can't do right in the eyes of his father.
I can only assume that people flock and that the individuals who have problems with this are singled out and picked upon. They start thinking life is unfair and start dreaming of making life balanced and a little bit fair. These people don't have parents who really take care for them who can build up a healthy vision of the world. Again, this person has access to a weapon and ZING!!!
Smart Tommy who was a grade A student who never had trouble with anybody else than himself mows down forty of his fellow students.
What's wrong? Mvass said that parents might be to blame. I partly agree that the parents are the last barrier, but that isn't the problem. People are just afraid nowadays, that's what I think. the only thing bad in real life is people scaring other people who are scared themselves. Personally, I think people take too many things for granted...
You know what would be awesome? if people learned the basics of Aristotle who did nothing but ask questions. The world would become a lot more interesting and people my age would no longer say: "this sucks and that too and you have to wear those clothes, because otherwise I'm insecure"
Oops  sorry, I digressed way too much!
Why do we blame others? Because we don't want these things to happen to ourselves. people usually shoot down what the don't know. In medieval times, it was the jews, nowadays they're movies, comics, video games and those damn kids!
By the way, I know I'm doing this:
Quote:
we are being so intolerant and arrogant sometimes and draw assumptions about their behavior
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 23, 2008 08:14 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 20:29, 23 Sep 2008.
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Yeah nice theories Dagoth and Death but you forget a few keypoints.
First and maybe the most important. There weren't happenings like this here ten years ago. No crazy bombers or shooters. They are a new fashion.
Second lunatics and loners have always existed. They were treated much worse in the past than they are now. Bullying was done by teachers as much as students. Fights were regular in schools. Heck, 30 years ago there used to be mass fights between our towns youth and neighboring smaller towns. They were almost weekly event.
So if crazy people like this were here before why hasn't anything like this happened before?
PS. I already hate it that they raised the gun purchase limit to 18. I mean it's kinda customary that you buy a shotgun for your 15 brithday with the money you have made. But I have to agree that pistols should be kept in the shooting ranges and clubs. No one's gonna need a pistol home.
EDIT: Posts running thin.
@Death: Suicide rates don't tell you anything here in Finland. We are the country that has the second highest rates after Japan. The rates have always been high. Usually people like this used to just kill themselves. The question is why are they shooting others too now? I'm voting on modern society. The biggest change here in Finland I've seen in the last ten years is the "americazation" of our country. Maybe celebrity cult.
@DG:There were people who were singled out and they were beaten up regularly. Besides if you want to went some anger no one's stopping you from beating up the guy that you hate. Or maybe the police will. Maybe that's the point. Since people can't fight anymore they build up their emotions and explode at some point. Far-fetched maybe?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 23, 2008 08:18 PM |
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First and maybe the most important. There weren't happenings like this here ten years ago. No crazy bombers or shooters. They are a new fashion.
Therefore we need to find the root of this "new fashion" rather than stopping it after it makes people "go off" like "psychos".
...or look at suicide rates
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted September 23, 2008 08:23 PM |
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Yeah nice theories Dagoth and Death but you forget a few keypoints.
Thanks  I prowess myself on being idealist.
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First and maybe the most important. There weren't happenings like this here ten years ago. No crazy bombers or shooters. They are a new fashion.
Agreed, but saying that it's just a fashion isn't one of the best reasons...
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Second lunatics and loners have always existed. They were treated much worse in the past than they are now.
Yes, but these people aren't mentally handicapped... I think...
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Bullying was done by teachers as much as students. Fights were regular in schools. Heck, 30 years ago there used to be mass fights between our towns youth and neighboring smaller towns. They were almost weekly event.
Well, I suppose darwin would be very happy. If you had all this bottled up rage (and fear) you could easily vent it through such fights I suppose, but if there is a war, there is a unison as well. If 'they are the bad guys' I think (I never know something) tha less people would be singled out then.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted September 23, 2008 09:05 PM |
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mmm so sad... I know that there can be a lot of reason for this kind of behavior, in countries like mine talk about being poor, having few choices on the system, but come on finland??? I though the nordic countrys have the better life quality in the world... I personally think that is more a genetic problem... this people have predisposition to this kind of things... and a tragic event or social rejection becomes the trigger... because not all the people who have a bad childhood or abusive parents or all other causes are capable to do this kind of things...
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 10:21 PM |
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I just heard about your gun policy and I don't seem supriced. People can get guns at the age of 15 with their parents agreement. That is wrong. 18 perhaps, but then again. People are not adults when they turn 18... It is sad indeed, but still...
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 23, 2008 10:27 PM |
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What does the gun policy about people getting guns at fifteen matter as the people who do these things are adults?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 10:29 PM |
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It came out very shallow I know. But think about it, no guns, no kills -.. More or less..
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 10:32 PM |
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TheDeath:
There's no excuse for murder. None at all. And to say "Oh, they're just misunderstood." is wrong. It's blaming society for the actions of a deviant individual.
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Eccentric Opinion
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted September 23, 2008 10:33 PM |
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But in the end, we're all a product of society are we not?
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted September 23, 2008 10:44 PM |
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I think there should be some sort of psihological test before you start to hand guns to people. Doesn't matter if he is 15 or 35, if he's a complete insane individual.
And indeed, these happenings are starting to occur more frequent. It also may be related to certain hypes/subcultures - remember the Death Note incident in Belgium.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 23, 2008 10:53 PM |
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Quote:
But in the end, we're all a product of society are we not?
Perhaps to a certain extent - but we're still very much responsible for your actions. For example, imagine this case: a man rapes and kills a woman. If we know beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it, he should be punished, right? Even if he was abused as a child and grew up in a poor neighborhood and is a drug addict. It doesn't matter. People are responsible for their own actions - you're not going to let a murderer go just because he was abused as a child, or something like that.
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Eccentric Opinion
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted September 23, 2008 10:56 PM |
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Thanks for your honest opinion and you're right. But if he was abused as a child, couldn't he plead, oh, let's say, insanity? And isn't that something that relieves them from responsibility of their own actions.
(I feel sick for just typing that)
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