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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Artifacts-What Mighty Powers Lay Behind the Shield?
Thread: Artifacts-What Mighty Powers Lay Behind the Shield?
ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted December 05, 2001 12:35 PM bonus applied.

Artifacts-What Mighty Powers Lay Behind the Shield?

I’m sure many members have tried desperately to get a thread started about the artifacts of HoMM IV, but not enough has been said about them, and where they stand in HoMM IV. Lately, I have noticed Vladpopescu79, and UnkaHaakon trying to get threads about them going. So here’s another one, and I hope it is more successful.

Very little is known about the artifacts in Heroes of Might and Magic IV. Artifacts, being a very important part of all the HoMM series, like spells, have not received much recognition in Heroes of Might and Magic IV. I’ve have created this thread because artifacts are vital for Heroes IV and its new looks and features. Spells and artifacts have worked well with each other in the past, and if there is no real current information on either, what is to become of both of them?

As we all know, the attack, defence, spellpower, and knowledge have all disappeared, and newer, seemingly better versions of these have been put in their place. I’m sure we are quite intrigued about this change, and how it will affect battle, spells, and creatures. But it also affects artifacts, and nearly their whole purpose as a Heroes of Might and Magic III stead.

In previous HoMMs artifacts were used primarily to boost the attack, defencse or speed of a creature, or to enhance stats in the hero inventory, such as +1 spellpower. Although, on certain occasions, artifacts served as luck, morale, and primary skill enhancers. There was also the odd time were the artifacts were not needed, and were sacrificed on the Altar of Sacrifice. As far as we know, none of these aspects is going to be present in HoMM 4, mind-boggling us on where, when and how the artifacts of HoMM 4 are going to come into play. So far, as suggested by this picture of the Dragon Scale Armour:
That defence will be back (As expected) in some sort of disguise, or different purpose. As we know defence is a secondary skill, which increases what? Probably the damage inflicted by another opponent, although, what it enhances will not be named defence, I don’t think. Not only will it affect heroes but creatures will also have the capabilities of carrying artifacts and using them to their full potential, which serves a greater purpose for artifacts. Since creatures have different attributes to heroes, will the artifacts focus on all of these, or just the ones, which are common to both. If it is the former, we could really see artifacts take of for the reason that creatures will be able to use them in different, and possibly more effective ways than heroes. This will create more strategy on the battlfield.

Since defence and attack are now secondary skills, artifacts will also have to broaden what they do to certain creatures and heroes. This could either mean they get stronger, or they get weaker, and less depended on, and will slowly drift away from the fray, to the hay, in the bay. If they get stronger though, we could see a whole new way we approach artifacts, and even battles for that matter. A way it can do this is by strengthening secondary skills, which could in turn lead to strengthening primary skills. This will also make them less like spells, and more unique. A down side is, that morale and luck have also been changed, like defence and attack, and there has been no apparent sign of them in Heroes IV. This could make the artifacts purpose smaller, or if luck and morale will have more effect, strengthen it. Artifacts are part of a win-lose situation. With the drastic changes of the system, artifacts could either become more powerful, or less important, as I have already mentioned. Usually, in ‘Real-Life’, artifacts have proven to be a key element in life and death.

My guess is that artifacts will be able to have an impact on secondary skills, for the purpose that there were so many bows and swords in the previous HoMMs. Amidst all the changes going on around them, it is apparent that the artifacts will also have to change to suit the new Heroes of Might and Magic IV. With the new hero types and special abilities, it is not silly to think that magic heroes would be able to control and utilise ‘magic’ affecting artifacts better than a Barbarian would. This could also have an affect on the artifacts’ usage. But could these changes prove to rise or kill the legendary artifacts of the previous HoMMs? Will these changes affect the artifacts so much that they are no longer needed to their full extent? For me, I really don’t see it happening, 3DO would have planned for the artifacts purpose in HoMM IV, and probably made it important enough to include them in the game.

“The artifact categories are weapons, bows, armor, helms, shields, cloaks, boots, rings, amulets, staves, wands, books, potions, and miscellaneous. Staves increase a hero’s ability to use spells already known to the hero, books add spells to the spell books of heroes already skilled in magic, and wands allow any hero to cast a particular spell. We no longer have war machines as we did in Heroes III, although the ballista is a combat unit from the Haven town.”
This includes a very interesting point that artifacts will actually assist spells in combat, and make using them more proficient. So it is likely to say that there are definitely 2 or maybe 3 types of artifacts. Wands, staves books, and potions appear to be spell boosting artifacts, while weapons, bows, armour, helms, and shields appear to be offensive and defensive artifacts. This leaves cloaks, boots, rings, miscellaneous and amulets. My guess is that rings and amulets will help make spells more proficient, while cloaks, boots, and miscellaneous would probably have something to do with the adventure map and movement.
Another thing to find out is how these artifacts are used with the creatures and heroes. What purpose they serve, and if the artifacts will have similar abilities.
It has already been stated that the spells will have different effects from that of HoMM3, and could be a better thing for it.

“Combination artifacts are a feature that is likely to appear in an expansion.”
“Some artifacts aren't meaningful without a specific skill. A bow is not valuable to a hero without the Archery skill, for example.”
These two comments are made by Gus Smedstad, the lead designer of Heroes IV.
It seems as though artifacts have changed even more, and there will be more to them than just attaching them to a creature or hero. He also mentioned that artifacts will have no negative effects in Heroes IV, even though the Fizbin of Misfortune has been included. It will contain different properties. This will separate artifacts more from spells, on more than one way.
-You cannot just ‘use’ them straight away.
-There are no negative effect artifacts.
It has also been stated that heroes may use artifacts in battle, but may not change it while in the middle of one. This gives more strategy, and you really have to think of the opponents weakness in battle.
There are still more things to be found out about artifacts, like what ones are returning, and what other areas we can use them.
As far as I’m concerned, artifacts will serve more purposes than in HoMMIII, and although, we do not know the power in which they will operate, they will surely change the battle in some way, wether it be their effectiveness on creatures, or their apparently wider area of usage.

Please state your opinions on artifacts in HoMM IV here. And please tell us all you know about them, so we can have a better knowledge of them.

____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”

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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted December 05, 2001 10:08 PM

Quote:
He also mentioned that artifacts will have no negative effects in Heroes IV


No, he says that no artifact will have ONLY negative effects. Most artifacts will have both positive and negative effects, a few will be purely positive (from an earlier interview or preview), but none will have no positive effects at all. I'd guess that a typical artifact will be something along the lines of the Titan's Gladius (boosts one skill but weakens another slightly), but weaker.
____________
The calm before the storm is about to end.

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DarkTitan
DarkTitan


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2001 03:34 AM

Hmm...

Yes, i think that Hydra made a mistake.
Having dual or more effects for the artifacts, it will expand the possibilities in combat, and make some attacks possible.

I wonder if Titan's Gladius will be back, and the loin of legion and other cool artifacts.
Artifacts should play a much bigger part in the game now that is has more uses.
Artifacts have certainly taken a step forward in HoMM4.

I'm glad that they are more useful than previous game, since in Heroes 3 artifacts weren't needed to win a combat, but it was an asset.
____________

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ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted December 08, 2001 03:09 AM

OK.

Yes, you are right StormWarning, it doesn't have only negative effect.

Is this good? I think so. This job is for spells, and as i have said before, I wouldn't like to see artifacts becoming more like spells.
They are two different things, and have different purposes.
Since the defence and attack are secondary skills, this may change the purpose of artifacts, and many will have effects that we have not seen before and could change battles radically if used to good effect.

As we should know, the Dragon Scale armour is back, and since defence is a secondary skill, it could have a different purpose, and it could do more than defend.
Since there are not only negative affects, there has to be at least one more effect for an artifact, which gives them more abilties.

These also have great effects on the creatures, as they can use them, but in what manner, and because we don't think they have the same brain capacity as heroes, what will be the effectiveness when the creatures are using them?

I hope that other people will join the discussion, artifacts may play a vital part in Heroes IV and we may not know it.
____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”

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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted December 08, 2001 05:54 AM

Bring back the Hideous Mask!

I love artifacts that are cursed.  The mask locking on your head and making all wandering monsters attack you.  The Fizbin negating all your luck bonuses.  The reason they where taken out of H3 was because of the expanded backpack and being able to carry unequipped artifacts, no one would wear the Fizbin if they could just keep it in the backpack.

I think that cursed artifacts should be automatically equipped until you lose them in battle, or find a map location that will uncurse the artifact and change it into an extremely powerful artifact. (It's fun to attack a main hero with a cursed scout and transfer the artifact to the enemy)

Don't forget the Tax Lein.
____________
<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>

"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted December 08, 2001 07:58 AM

Offtopic: Bonus applied

Very nice initial post by The_Hydra, and I was especially pleased with his followup as well. It takes a lot of maturity to gracefully admit an error. Keep up the good work.
____________
Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted December 08, 2001 07:36 PM

From what I have read, it seems like armies without heroes can pick up, but not use, artifacts.  Creatures with hands WILL be able to use potions though.  I also heard somewhere (can't find it again though) that weapons will be able to be bought in towns, like minor artifacts.

As far as cursed artifacts, I like it!  I don't remember how you got them in H2 (or was it H1?) but it would be interesting to have them disguised as usefull artifacts and wouldn't be able to tell till you used it.


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ThE_HyDrA
ThE_HyDrA


Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
posted December 09, 2001 02:59 AM
Edited By: ThE_HyDrA on 9 Dec 2001

Replies:

Firstly thanks to UnkaHaakon for the QP.

Tristan:
Yes, that is what i heard, too, but i wasn't quite sure, as none of us are at this point i think!
Potions will be an item running alongside artifacts, which has been discussed a few times but not many because of the lack of information.
Hmm.. Intersting about the weapons, they maybe could be used to boost creature growth or hero skill, but who knows.
If you remember where that interview was, could you please tell us?

DarkTitan:
What are you saying?
And who are you talking to?
(No need to reply unless it includes artifacts.

Oldtimer:
I also agree with Tristan, cursed artifacts seem like a good idea and could be incorporated into HoMMIV by the use of potions on artifacts. The 'Hideous Mask' could be just one of the many useful 'Cursed' artifacts.
Thats a good idea, so that takes away from them being in the backpack.
I've got an idea for another.
Maybe one that repels creatures, since they can now move around on the adventure map. This also incroportes the advanced, expert and basic effects used in H3.
Basic: 30% repel
Advanced: 60% repel
Expert: 90% repel
There are many possibilities for cursed artifacts.
Good thoughts!

Edited Post in reply to Tristan:
Yes...
I thought that the Real-life aspect would come into play in HoMMIV, as i have displayed with the effectiveness of artifacts, and you have displayed facts about that with the heavier armour = slower but stronger.
Hopefully it does turn out in the way where characteristics of the hero and other items affect the strength of the artifacts.

____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted December 09, 2001 06:40 AM

Well, I can't seem to find that article/interview but H3trio has a pic of a blacksmith on their homm IV section that shows a crossbow, sword, shield, and armour for sale along with several potions.  Maybe someone saw this and assumed that was what it meant, dunno.  If it is true, I like it.  Wonder too if your hero would need to buy a bow of some sort to engage in missile fire?  I also read that wearing heavy armour would slow you down as well as offer greater protection?  I can see how you could mix effects on an artifact this way, and maybe it is a good thing.

Thinking about it some more, it could also help to keep heroes more different.

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DarkTitan
DarkTitan


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 09, 2001 08:31 AM

artifacts hey?

hmm, i would like to say that i hope artifacts are good in h4 because i said heaps on the topic already and i was congratulating you!
____________

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Conn
Conn


Responsible
Famous Hero
God slayer
posted December 09, 2001 01:08 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 20:54, 27 Nov 2008.

I agree with tristan on the fact that creatures will be able to pick up artifacts but not beeing able to use them. They will have a backpack like the heroes in hmm3. All yhis is in an interview  with maranthea(at least i think it's her). I found this interview specifically about artifacts at http://www.hmm4.com It's a very interestring site with lots of info about hmm4.



Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.

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