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| Thread: Heroes Community Map |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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skao_low
Hired Hero
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posted December 06, 2001 04:35 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Heroes Community Map
I've had an idea: I would like to make a Map based on the Heroes Community.
Now you ask, "How would you do that?" or "What would the lay of the land look like?"
Well, I leave that to you.
Now obviously, I will hafto set some limitations, or the thing will go out of control.
So I will give you many choices on what the map should be like, etc. - and whichever one gets the most votes, is the one that I will use on the actual map.
(Also, feel free to add your own comments on how this should be done.  )
Ok, here are the first few general questions... (for the answers, just put, for example: 1. a, for each question)
1. Map Size
a. X-Large
b. Large
c. Medium
d. Small
2. Water/Land amount
a. All land/no water
b. Mostly land with small lakes
c. Same amount of land as water (roughly)
d. Mostly water with islands and small continents
e. A lot of water with islands
3. Number of players
a. four
b. five
c. six
d. seven
e. eight
4. Trees
a. Lots of Trees
b. Many trees
c. Medium amount
d. Some trees
e. Very few trees
5. Mountains
a. Lots of long chains of mountains
b. Lots of mountains which are seperated
c. Medium amount of mountains
d. Some mountains
e. Very few mountains
6. Scenery
a. Very detailed scenery, plenty of flowers, etc.
b. Somewhat detailed scenery
c. Medium amount of scenery
d. Some scenery
e. Very little scenery
7. Towns and Castles (neutral ones)
a. Lots of towns
b. Many towns
c. Medium amount of towns
d. Some towns
e. The only towns are the ones that the player starts with.
8. Roads
a. Lots of roads connecting everything
b. Many roads
c. Medium amount of roads
d. Roads only from the castle to the immediate mines
e. No roads
9. Monsters
a. Strong monsters guarding almost everything
b. Semi-strong monsters guarding many things
c. Normal monster settings
d. Weak monsters guarding some things
e. Very weak monsters guarding only very important things
10. Loose Resources/Treasures
a. Lots of loose resources and treasure chests
b. Many loose resources and treasure chests
c. Medium amount of loose resources and treasure chests
d. Some loose resources and tresure chests
e. Almost no resources and no loose treasure chests
11. Artifacts
a. Lots of artifacts
b. Many artifacts
c. Medium amount of artifacts
d. Some artifacts
e. Very few artifacts
12. Victory Condition
a. No special victory condition
b. Acquire certain artifact
c. Bring certain artifact to certain location
d. Defeat specific monster
e. Capture specific town
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dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
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posted December 06, 2001 05:07 AM |
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Have you ever made a map before?
Unless you're planning on starting with the random map generator, I suspect it may take more time than you expect - and more input than you've allowed for. Story ideas, perchance? Characters? There are a lot of people around who you can edit Heroes to resemble ...
Now *that's* worth asking for suggestions on. Who should go in and what should their bio, skills, spells, and alignments be?
But as for the rest of the map - the number of towns, the supply of trees, etc - you are not a machine operating the H3 editor, you are an artist creating a labor of love - and it won't ever be completed if you don't feel inspired by a stream of ideas to start with. Especially not if it is XL - there is 16 times more area in an XL map than a small one; where it is reasonable to complete a good small map in one month, XL maps take substantially longer. Biggest I've ever done is L, single layer (9 times the area of a small map.)
It is a doable project, I think, by the way. But what are the goals? Gather 'quality' stars (artifacts? Win would then probably be assembling a combo.) Be invited to become a moderator? Get a very high post count? (resources or creatures would represent posts?) Drive all trolls from the community? (which would involve getting a few moderators on your side.)
So what are you asking us for? What do *you* think?
DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted December 06, 2001 11:40 AM |
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my choice...
01. Map Size: X-Large (nothing else will work)
02. Water/Land amount: Same amount of land as water
03. Number of players: eight (see reason number one)
04. Trees: Medium amount (terrain dependant)
05. Mountains: Medium amount of mountains (see above)
06. Scenery: Somewhat detailed scenery (too many details can be distracting)
07. Towns and Castles (neutral ones): Medium amount of towns (many might work too)
08. Roads: Many roads (are you going for a fast game?)
09. Monsters: Semi-strong monsters guarding many things (depends on the area and the story)
10. Loose Resources/Treasures: Many loose resources and treasure chests (too many might spoil the fun)
11. Artifacts: Medium amount of artifacts (see above)
12. Victory Condition: totally depends on the story)
...which brings us to another question... what is the storyline? ..I can help if you wish... I have made XL maps before... in fact I only do XL maps...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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darkspirit
Famous Hero
aka Zutus
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posted December 06, 2001 12:49 PM |
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have you ever thought on putting palmtrees in the water? looks pretty neat to me, and you get a nice jungle effect (especially with those lil' canoes and some fortresses here and there).
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Dajek
Known Hero
Psychedelic Knight
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posted December 06, 2001 07:08 PM |
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Very good idea! Put me in as a Warlock!
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted December 06, 2001 07:30 PM |
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Get me with the Necro. And if you do, give me these skills:
Basic diplomacy, basic logistics and basic leadership.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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skao_low
Hired Hero
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posted December 07, 2001 02:10 AM |
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QUOTE:
"Have you ever made a map before?
Unless you're planning on starting with the random map generator, I suspect it may take
more time than you expect - and more input than you've allowed for. Story ideas, perchance? Characters? There are a lot of people around who you can edit Heroes to resemble ...
Now *that's* worth asking for suggestions on. Who should go in and what should their bio,
skills, spells, and alignments be?
But as for the rest of the map - the number of towns, the supply of trees, etc - you are not
a machine operating the H3 editor, you are an artist creating a labor of love - and it won't
ever be completed if you don't feel inspired by a stream of ideas to start with. Especially not
if it is XL - there is 16 times more area in an XL map than a small one; where it is reasonable
to complete a good small map in one month, XL maps take substantially longer. Biggest I've
ever done is L, single layer (9 times the area of a small map.)
It is a doable project, I think, by the way. But what are the goals? Gather 'quality' stars
(artifacts? Win would then probably be assembling a combo.) Be invited to become a
moderator? Get a very high post count? (resources or creatures would represent posts?)
Drive all trolls from the community? (which would involve getting a few moderators on your side.)
So what are you asking us for? What do *you* think?
DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/"
Have I ever made a map before? Do you actually think i would try to do something like this if I had never made a map?
Yes, I have made maps, many of them, though under another alias.
Of course i WONT use the random map generator(rmg)... If i want to fit this to everyones needs, using the rmg would be impractical. No, i plan to simply layout the map, then add plot and characters. I have made a map before, so i need no newbie lessons from you on how to do so, thank you.
Of course i will add my personal touch to it, i never said i was a machine... i just thought it would be nice for people to have their say about it, since it is the HEROES COMMUNITY map...
I have much confidence that it will be a good map, for i have already a good idea of what i will do, and how i will insert characters, etc. But first i need you to put your input in on those general questions, and then we can move on to plot, characters, etc.
Also, a small map in 1 MONTH??? wow, if i made maps that slow then i wouldnt be skao low, id be skao sloow...
how many maps do you expect to make at that pace? and where do you get that much free time?
i make good, detailed large maps (my specialty) in a week...
several people have sent me emails about how theyve had whole hotseat tournaments using one map (that i made in a week or less)... not meaning to brag (even though thats what im doing) but a small map in one month seems quite slow... of course it might be good too... i dont know, ill hafto check it out  .
Though i would like to make it sod, or ab, i feel it is best to make it plain roe, since i want everyone to be able to play it .
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted December 07, 2001 02:17 AM |
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Edited By: RMS on 6 Dec 2001
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…hehe, some people may be a bit skeptical of your abilities…perhaps it’s time to show them what you’re made of!
***
1) Map Size- XL (I never did used to play anything else)
2) Water/land ratio: Mostly land, with one huge lake, a river or two, and a few small water deposits
3) Number of players: 8 (isn’t that most rational?)
4) Trees: Many (but most going along with other scenery effects with layering and combination)
5) Mountains: Some spread out here and there, but only one main mountain range
6) Scenery: Extremely detailed, but not so that it takes up too much space
7) Neutral Towns: Just a few additional ones, away from starting areas
8) Roads within immediate town districts, and main neutral building areas
9) Monsters: Guarding mostly everything, but power based on it’s treasure
10) Treasure/resources: Decent amount (more resources than treasure)
11) Artifacts: Some (enough to go around, and mostly further away from all players)
12) Victory Condition: Bring artifact to certain town (make this condition almost impossible to meet though)
*** - It MUST be SoD or at least AB
- Add in many RPG elements typed things.
- all members should choose teams, and be represented as a hero, and should have personal bios and starting stuff to match their personalities and stuff
- It should have a slightly realistic landscape, unlike some of those totally wacky looking maps
Should be two layered, with more water areas underground
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This space for rent.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted December 07, 2001 02:29 AM |
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hmm...
have to agree on the sod/roe matter but nothing stops you (or me if you wish) to make a sod version after the roe is done...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2001 02:57 AM |
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1.a
2.c
3.e
4.b
5.b
6.a
7.b
8.a
9.c
10.b
11.c
12.e
Put me under rampart and u better make me a hero or i'll come over there and u'll have a Nike inprinon ur forehead. LOLOLOL i'm joking
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dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
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posted December 07, 2001 04:41 AM |
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Quote:
Have I ever made a map before? Do you actually think i would try to do something like this if I had never made a map?
Yes, I have made maps, many of them, though under another alias.
I do actually think that *some* people would try to do something like this without every having made a map before. There are some real dimwits on the net; I'm glad to learn you're not among them. And I asked because the questions you were asking, relating to the characteristics of the map, were so totally different to anything I would seek input on - indeed, many of them are things I consider fairly unimportant. (And you currently have a 'Tavern-Dweller' post count. So do I, but I've been around the Statesman's Quill for a year and a half. I don't know your background.)
A map plays the same whether it is divided with mountains or trees. (It looks a little different, to be sure; and the connectedness or otherwise of the barriers makes a difference.) The use of water depends on the logical breakdown of the map - how should it play? These are things I was expecting you to have your own ideas on - because *I* wouldn't let anyone else tell me how *my* map would play!
Quote:
Of course i WONT use the random map generator(rmg)... If i want to fit this to everyones needs, using the rmg would be impractical. No, i plan to simply layout the map, then add plot and characters. I have made a map before, so i need no newbie lessons from you on how to do so, thank you.
I beg your pardon; obviously I came over too strongly.
Quote:
Of course i will add my personal touch to it, i never said i was a machine... i just thought it would be nice for people to have their say about it, since it is the HEROES COMMUNITY map...
Now *you're* being overly strong. *The* heroes community map? Say rather *A* HC map - if only because HC is here for the long haul, and will doubtless change over time; but also because other mapmakers may have their own ideas on what a HC map could or should be.
But I'm being a little pedantic here :-)
Quote:
I have much confidence that it will be a good map, for i have already a good idea of what i will do, and how i will insert characters, etc. But first i need you to put your input in on those general questions, and then we can move on to plot, characters, etc.
My personal preference, on the matters you have mentioned, fall to medium maps, moderate to little water, fewer players, more trees, highly connected, and higher decoration. However - I'm only one type of player.
Quote:
Also, a small map in 1 MONTH??? wow, if i made maps that slow then i wouldnt be skao low, id be skao sloow...
how many maps do you expect to make at that pace? and where do you get that much free time?
:-) Do you mean that much, or that little?
However, your comments below show me why we are coming from such different perspectives on mapmaking. I'm still boggled by how much we are doing so - I can't imagine getting the fundamentals of a large map down in a week - but I do not make maps for multiplayer. Or at least primarily so - though 'Canberra' is multiplayer balanced. My maps are story maps, first and foremost. Sometimes I spend two hours on one quest guard. (An extreme case, I admit.)
I have three maps to my name, all at AstralWizard. All are micro-customized; almost nothing is random; almost nothing has the default text attached. All have high story content.
Canberra is multiplayer balanced, Large, single layer, 6-8 hours playtime (singleplayer). It took me three months before first release, and another one or two months over the update (which was substantial).
Thomas' Tale is a small map that took about a month before it went into playtesting. I thought that was fast. It's a story/puzzle map, single player, playtime 1-3 hours, replay time 10-20 minutes, only one significant fight.
And Going Gold, which was released just last weekend, is a medium, two layer map, story/puzzle/conquer, no town development, playtime about 6 hours.
And with each of these maps, I didn't just make them. I lived them. It's not very good for your work when you spend half an hour daydreaming about Jen and Chris getting into and out of another problem - but it does correlate with maps set in fully realised worlds. I *know* those two green dragons - one of my playtesters called them 'believable and likeable'. In a few months I'll find out what the AW judges think of them.
I compare myself to mapmakers like Corribus and Charles Watkins - Corribus' last map, a large, took him six months, and his current project has also been going that long.
I review maps for AstralWizard from a single-player perspective. I rate a lot of maps '7, competent, forgettable.' This is the Tavern section of HC, not the ToH section - so I'm not *totally* out of place :-) But now you know who I am, and where my comments are coming from.
Quote:
i make good, detailed large maps (my specialty) in a week...
several people have sent me emails about how theyve had whole hotseat tournaments using one map (that i made in a week or less)... not meaning to brag (even though thats what im doing) but a small map in one month seems quite slow... of course it might be good too... i dont know, ill hafto check it out .
Well - *I* think it's a good map, but it's definitely not a standard one! Thomas' Tale, rated 8.1, available from www.astralwizard.com.
And if you'd care to give me sufficient information to find one or more of your maps?
Quote:
Though i would like to make it sod, or ab, i feel it is best to make it plain roe, since i want everyone to be able to play it .
I'd still like to know what sort of win condition you're thinking of - and *how* this map is to reflect the Heroes Community; besides having HC members as heroes. (A Necro w leadership and diplomacy? Hah! :-) )
DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted December 07, 2001 05:02 AM |
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...do I sense some over confidence here? ...with perhaps a tint of arrogance even? hehe, I know you mean well, but however you try to cover it, it's peeking through 
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This space for rent.
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dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
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posted December 07, 2001 06:17 AM |
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:-) I'd reply properly, but then I'd really put my foot in it!
DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted December 07, 2001 02:09 PM |
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Woock
I was chuckling myself when I saw necro with dip and leadership. lol Join us or Join us as skellies. (just a small advantage huh) but I think they are talkin a HMM3 map here. why would you want to be involved?
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Winner or Whiner?
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Milena
Responsible
Supreme Hero
in supreme disgrace
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posted December 07, 2001 04:45 PM |
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Quote:
Get me with the Necro. And if you do, give me these skills:
Basic diplomacy, basic logistics and basic leadership.
Woockies, you just knocked me down! LoL. A necro with leadsership! Oh, my, haven't heard of this thing before... this is... interesting. One of my questions in the easy section of my Heroes Quiz was what can't a necro learn... how can you then? *doesn't understand*
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 Milena
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted December 07, 2001 04:52 PM |
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Witch Hut
no matter what skills a class disallows, you can learn em if a witch hut offers it.
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Winner or Whiner?
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Milena
Responsible
Supreme Hero
in supreme disgrace
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posted December 07, 2001 04:55 PM |
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I know, Zuddie
Same thing goes for Necromancy. But it doesn't count when we are talking about starting skills.
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Milena
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted December 08, 2001 02:08 AM |
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...could you please either discuss this matter elsewhere, or at another point, after we figure out the basic schematics of the map?
Thanks
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This space for rent.
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skao_low
Hired Hero
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posted December 08, 2001 02:20 AM |
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dragonsister...
i understand that you make maps differently than me... but perhaps we can talk about that on another thread... i really wanna do this so come on and vote! 
i would hafto say that after thinking about it for a while, i plan to make this a map with teams. meaning it will have a storyline, but it will be a "kill all" map. So disregard the "victory condition" question.
ALSO! if anyone wants to be included in the map as a character or something, now is the time to speak!
And, i will need some input on which people might be on who's team. (i.e. milena would be on lith's team as one would assume)
And once the map is done, you can maybe play as milena, and be the good druid, fighting the evil hexa, who is a warlock!
Or maybe Shae Trielle makes a strange new alliance with TheBlackDragon!
You get the idea .
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted December 08, 2001 01:07 PM |
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What, something wrong? Maybe I'm a knight that switched to the evil side? And after all, you don't have to add me to the map, cuz I'll never play it and I'll never know if I'm in or not. And my sugestions: Make it four players since there are four forums. Make the map as big as possible so it can contain as man members as possible. And one VERY strong hero that wouldn't be on the side of any forum. That would be Val of course. And something more personal: could you please make a HoMM2 version? ::wide smile::
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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