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Heroes Community > Other Games Exist Too > Thread: Doomforge's review corner
Thread: Doomforge's review corner This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 29, 2008 10:19 AM bonus applied by MightyMage on 24 Dec 2008.

Doomforge's review corner

Hey,

always wanted to review a couple of games, not exactly new or popular, but those which captivated me for some time.. or those who got me veeeery disappointed So I created a topic where I can whine about or praise some titles.

Imho, most game reviews - both in magazines and on sites like gamespy - suck. Why? Because they put too much emphasis on things you can see on your own after playing like 5 mins. Graphic is this, sound is that, music is good, interface is bad, blah blah blah. Come on! What about the atmosphere, the balance, the magic? I know that reviewers have very limited time, especially those writing about magazines, but a review concerning shallow features is a fail review for me. x]



So...


First title I wanted to review..

[EARTHSIEGE 2]

I don't know whether you guys remember this game or not. Possibly not, because it wasn't very popular - not a world wide hit.

If you can't recall it..


Yeah, a game about mechs, with you piloting one.

What was so good about it? First and foremost, the damage system. It was simply highly plausible to see the enemy mechs dismantled under your fire, to see flying legs and cockpits. The explosions and fire were horribly pixelated, but had a pretty nice sound effect (There's nothing worse in games than explosions that sound like an old man's fart. Come on, it has to be a big BANG with a nice bass to run through your subwoofer.. -__-). This lead to players enjoying running around in missions that didn't even differ. Ok, there were different objectives - but it all lead to same old salvage gathering. With lasers and beams as tools. And you know what? It rocked.

Or maybe I should say: it would rock, if the game's mechanics didn't use such a ridiculous system. And if the weaponry was balanced even a tiny bit.

I don't really like when the game offers you multiple choices, but some are strictly better than others. I don't like when it doesn't matter what you choose, because they differ too little to matter. Earthsiege2 is the former cause. From the very beginning we can see that weapons are good or weak. Even the most basic ones - the autocannon family and the laser family - are imbalanced because autocannons are countless times better than lasers. Not only with a bigger range, but they also destroy enemy mechs way faster. A mech armed with five 100mm autocannons can destroy a enemy heavy mech in like 4 seconds. A mech armed with the laser equivalent - five 500GW lasers - needs like 8-10 seconds. Oh, and autocannons need ammo, but missions are so short that it nearly never matters, while lasers - with limitless ammo - have a power consumption system, used by all other energy weapons too. And it SUCKS. Because continuous fire depletes the energy faster than it regenerates, and after a couple seconds of heavy shooting, your energy weapons no longer respond, or shoot once per 10 seconds or so... so after destroying two mechs with laser weapons, you get torn to pieces by the third one because your weapons are down. Great.

There's more - the shields in this game go down ridiculously fast, and they have the lowest recharge priority - after all weapons. So using laser weaponry = forced pauses after destroying 2-3 mechs to recharge weapons and shields. No frickin way.

That's not everything. The game offers you nearly all available weapons from the very beginning of the game. There are a few new technologies, but they concern only autocannons and lasers (you start with three types available, and you can get two bigger ones after a few missions) and some auxiliary systems like speed/shield boosters. Imho, it sucks - in those type of games, revealing new, powerful lucre is a reward that drives you to play the game. Not the poor "they invaded us" plot. So the players' will to play this game is based only on if he enjoys destruction. No bonuses. Pity.

Oh well. concerning weapon balance (yeah I simply have to whine), the "bigger" weapons are imba as hell too. Most heavy mechs have a few hardpoints for those. We have: electromagnetic flux (something like a close-combat lightning bolt), EMP cannon, particle beam and plasma cannon. And what can I say? Two words: plasma cannon. Other weapons don't even come close. One bolt from plasma cannon is an instakill for most light to medium hercs; it has a longer range than electromagnetic flux, the only weapon that comes close with destructive power, and it has a limited auto-tracking system, which is a total blessing due to clumsy controls and targeting. This weapon, if doubled, kills like 95% of the mechs in one shot. Fun? Yeah.. but why on earth the rest is so weak compared to it!? Only 4-5 100mm autocannons have similar stopping power, but thanks to pathetic targeting system, it's most often better to resort to plasma weaponry.

Are the controls that bad? Yeah. The "auto tracking" aims at where the enemy bot was a second ago or so, and manual aiming is a pain in the @ss. You can't assign the keys yourself so you have to cope with IJMK turning your cockpit around.. ofc it doesn't work in diagonals, so aiming manually is most often a waste of time. The only thing you can do is to press M  because auto-aim always aims too high and you can destroy the mechs with thrice the normal speed by aiming at legs.

Due to pathetic aiming, it's really hard to enjoy the combat aside from situations where both mechs charge being directly in front of each other. Unfortunately, some of the enemies are smarter and abuse your inability to turn your piece of junk by running in circles around you. Auto-tracking is completely helpless in that situation and it's best to leave such mech to your squad members, praying for it not to take your shields down too fast (which happens after 2-3 seconds anyway). Yeah, you have a squad, forgot to mention it - a squad of complete idiots which won't open fire to enemy mechs even if they're being torn to pieces by them without your command. What a loyal team.. Not only you have to fight with annoying controls, but you have to babysit a team of morons, too! Well, tbh, they are not THAT bad, they are more precise than you, usually. But they don't have a tiny bit of reason, charging alone in a light mech towards three assault-class mechs. Happy funeral, mike.

The game is not only about mechs, you can also (starting from like 1/3 of the game) build and fly a landskimmer. Very convenient because it's fast, extremely hard to hit unless you fly slow, and can have two plasma cannons mounted.. yeah.. the game turns into find-nosedive-shoot-destroy-fly away, but it's really funny to see those helpless grounded mechs desperately shooting at you while you're piloting with one hand, and eating a sandwich with another, with a big yawn on your face. If you want this game to be easy, get the jet. At least it's fast.

Why it is such an advantage towards ordinary mechs? Because they are so slow that they are outrun by snails and turtles. Except the lightest ones, you can die out of boredom by the time you reach your waypoint. And most of the maps have some sort of hill climbing fun, where your already pathetic speed gets cut in half. Wonderful. Especially fun when you have to protect something. Before you make it through those damn hills, the thing you were to protect is already blown to smithereens. Joy.

I whine a lot, but still, I really enjoyed the game. Just for the crude fun of dismantling enemies. It's pretty annoying, yes, but it's still a good mech game, without unnecessary complications. If the mechs had better movement and targeting (it's a frickin pinnacle of technology and what do we see, a targeting system worse than those of second world war!?), it would be really fun.. I'd just add more lucre, weapons and such, balance weapons, nerf the plasmagun and reduce the power of the flying machine.. that would make it epic. Right now, it's just decent. Go ahead and DL it btw, it's abandonware I believe, and despite waht they say, it works fine on XP well (you just need to set the virtual memory to 512MB, because anything above that is "too little" for the game )

Overall rating: 6.5


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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted October 29, 2008 10:40 AM

Holy through review batman.  Never was one for Mech games, or very many shooting games either.  Still, nice post
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted October 29, 2008 12:48 PM

Quote:
Imho, most game reviews - both in magazines and on sites like gamespy - suck. Why? Because they put too much emphasis on things you can see on your own after playing like 5 mins. Graphic is this, sound is that, music is good, interface is bad, blah blah blah. Come on! What about the atmosphere, the balance, the magic? I know that reviewers have very limited time, especially those writing about magazines, but a review concerning shallow features is a fail review for me.

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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted October 29, 2008 03:57 PM
Edited by ChaosDragon at 16:00, 29 Oct 2008.

Yup, i agree with you.

The worst thing is, most people always look at famous reviewer (like gamespy, etc) first for their references whether to buy it or not.

For all this years, i never had Doomforge's problem, untill universe at war (one of petroglyph games) finally released, i follow this game from its demo and beta, and have high hope for it, but, sadly because of those reviewer, this game is dead now. Personally, i think universe at war is one of the best rts, at least it's a good RTS game to play as an alternative to CnC 3, BFME, and other modern RTS while waiting for starcraft 2.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2008 11:26 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 11:30, 30 Oct 2008.

Ok, time for another review.

[ONE MUST FALL: 2097]

Now that was one HELL of a fighting game. Everyone was tired of those karate freaks throwing fireballs-games, and BAM, we got something really new and fun - huge robots ;]



Ok, even though I promised myself not to write about graphics music and everything that is subjective, I really recommend you to check the main theme, when the game was released and most had crappy sounds, this one was.. epic!

So the game was basically a fighting game with not only classical arcade "beat them all and rape the big bad boss", but also one kick@ss career mode, where you won money and used it to upgrade your robot. The upgrades were pretty standard, arm power/speed, leg power/speed, armor and stun resistance. You could also upgrade your pilot's str, agility and endurance. Pretty cool, because it was tricky to balance all those things and remain good. Another cool thing was career-only modules that you could win from hidden characters, unlocking extra moves or improving the already existing ones.

It wasn't without flaws, though. The speed could increase to sick levels, resulting in easy 20-30 hit combos that basically ended up with the opponent half-dead and stunned. All you had to do is repeat.. repeat.. repeat. The game had a few difficulty levels (plus some hidden - yeah, there was a lot of hidden stuff in this game), but even on the highest it wasn't very hard. Enemy bots weren't the most clever.. They were very susceptible to combo attacks and not very dynamic, giving you the upper hand in most combats. There were exceptions, though: Each pilot used his own AI, and some (mostly hidden ones, but also some regular, like Steel Claw or Prince Vassar) were tough because they learned your moves well and countered them even better. Those were rare causes though: most of the enemies simply had much better bots (and were better pilots - by stats), and did nothing except throwing a random punch or special attack here or there. Even the champion of the biggest tournament - world championship - relied heavily on his maxed out Nova bot and sick stats while being a pushover. Oh well.

Fortunately the "arcade mode" was tough as hell, especially on the hidden difficulty levels. There was no tuning up your bots there, and max speed wasn't allowing you to do 30 hit combo with ease. Thus, it was the only real challenge in OMF

Unlocking hidden pilots was a lot of fun - most often you had to perform a special "finisher" on a defeated opponent - scrap, sometimes with destruction - which was a brutal way of showing your dominance aka shredding the defeated robot apart - which also gave you extra cash (and made the game easy -> without scrap/destruction, your bot was rather weak). You sometimes had to fulfill other requirements, though, like winning with a certain percentage of life or even getting required average damage or accuracy (which was obviously hard to do!). Hidden pilots often had extra modules, though, and gave lots of cash.

You could change your bot throughout your career, but it wasn't really the best idea unless you really liked other bots: fully upgraded career Jaguar was top tier bot, capable of easy and sick combos. The Nova, secret bot of the game, was pretty much a big punching bag, both in career and multiplayer.

Multiplayer! that's where balance is concerned. Was the game balanced good? nope In two-player mode, some bots were definitely the best, most likely those with air superiority (Gargoyle!) or sick combo (Katana). Bots without those were rather screwed up (Flail, Shadow). Nova was downright pathetic.

In career mode (yeah you could duel there too) it was slightly different because of extra/improved moves but there still was a list of the best (with Gargoyle still on top, with Jaguar pretty close), mediocre (Katana wasn't so godly in career mode) and pathetic (hi Nova!). Nobody played fully-tuned bots though because of their sick speed. Infinite combos weren't possible, but as I already mentioned, scoring 20-30 hits was pretty darn close. Besides, two-player game allowed you to choose one of the pilots, which gave even more diversity, but the pilots weren't balanced as well, with Stefan and Crystal being the best choice

So what was so good about this game? Everything! Career, massive amount of hidden stuff to unlock in every mode, the pleasure of stomping over the enemy bot and listening to those deep metalic sounds you could hear after every roundhouse/strong punch. BOOONG, like a freaking bell , the sight of your bot doing sick combos (it was broken but still fun as hell) and the great atmosphere. Biggest complaints? low amount of special moves (2-4 per bot), but they were at least well-animated and pretty creative. Some of them, like the jag's overhead throw, were a real eye-candy Also, the game was easy. Unfortunately. After getting used to it, you could pretty much dominate in every fight, making them no longer thrilling (I still remember how excited I was when I used to win with 5-10% hp after a very effective combo finisher..). Still, compared to all that karate fireball nonsense, the game was nearly flawless. Sad thing that all the sequel plans got canceled.

Overall rating: 8
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted October 30, 2008 01:07 PM

Quote:
Still, compared to all that karate fireball nonsense, the game was nearly flawless.
I don't get exactly what's so great about it compared to "karate fireball nonsense". Yes it was unique, that is good, but far from flawless. And just because it was different doesn't mean it was better. Sure for someone who played the "karate fireball nonsense" before this would seem cool compared to another "karate fireball nonsense" (since it would be different), but I watched a video and it seems utterly imbalanced. It is a bit slow, not that much of a problem, but doesn't have many special moves or some "special" stuff (fatalities in Mortal Kombat, Super Arts in Street Fighter, etc...), and like I said it's imbalanced as hell.

Then there are the robots which aren't as cool as "karate fireball freaks"

Still the score you gave it is good but the above quote is the one that was off the point for me.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2008 05:13 PM

Pretty simple, if you play your 1000th karate fireball nonsense, you will puke, no matter how good the game is. Would a dune 2 clone work nowadays? No, and there was a time every RTS was a dune2 clone. Every single one It lasted for like three years!

And it may seem slow because a) speed is set to minimum b) it's not career mode c) players have chosen slow pilots. Believe me on the fastest settings it's completely mad (and I don't mean the fact that fastest speed in games from that time on modern PCs = madness by default ).

It is imbalanced, I agree, but you won't notice if you're not a great MP gamer. Pretty funny you could notice it just by watching a video
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted October 30, 2008 05:41 PM

OMF.  Now that takes me back.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
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posted October 30, 2008 05:49 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 17:50, 30 Oct 2008.

Quote:
Pretty simple, if you play your 1000th karate fireball nonsense, you will puke, no matter how good the game is.
Like I said, this doesn't mean this one is better, it only means it's different. If you play the 100th game like this, you will puke, no matter how good the game is as well (only problem is there aren't)

For example, for a complete newbie at karate fireball games, playing the, let's say, 100th down the generation will seem cool and "new" because that person didn't play something like that before -- so how come such a game is "weak" just because it is no different than the predecessor? That logic falls apart in some scenarios. A game can't be weak because it's no different than something else -- at best, it can have the same rating as the one it "imitates" so to speak.

Quote:
It is imbalanced, I agree, but you won't notice if you're not a great MP gamer. Pretty funny you could notice it just by watching a video
Total ownage by some robot who kept on air attacking the other. FLAWLESS ownage. And it couldn't do **** (the left player, the one underpowered, I mean).
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2008 06:01 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:02, 30 Oct 2008.

maybe it was just AI abuse (or training mode).

And no I don't agree with your logic. If game makers make 1001th Dune2 RTS, their game is extremely unoriginal, period. Just because someone hasn't played them all and doesn't know it doesn't make the game orignal. It's not subjective.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted October 30, 2008 06:03 PM

Unoriginal: yes
Crappy: Not necessarily (depending like I said above)
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted October 30, 2008 06:29 PM

Originality is pretty important imho. Maybe not if it's second, third, even tenth game based on the same motive, but if it's hundredth, it makes me wonder why on earth didn't they try anything new.

So, an unoriginal game can be good yes, but if you've seen exactly the same game before XXX times, will you rate it high? NO!.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted October 30, 2008 06:33 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 18:35, 30 Oct 2008.

Quote:
So, an unoriginal game can be good yes, but if you've seen exactly the same game before XXX times, will you rate it high? NO!.
What about newbies who are just introduced to the genre? They will think it's some kind of a very bad game given the rating, so that logic is bad.

Then, originality isn't that important in fighting games, the important is it to be fun or to have some interesting stuff. There isn't much about a story (doh) or creativity, apart from special moves (which usually are different in games, or the game mechanics are different).

EDIT: Is something such as Valve's Portal, for example, such a 10/10 game because it's original? After all, the other games are unoriginal because they have a "common genre", or maybe all FPSs are unoriginal because all of them are about first-person shooting etc... As someone who, for example, hasn't played Doom or Quake 1 or 2 in his life, why would I care about (let's say a Quake ripoff like Half-life) being unoriginal? At most I will consider the ones where I read the review unreliable, since I for example enjoyed the game.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2008 06:35 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:36, 30 Oct 2008.

No, the logic is fine. Just because someone doesn't know doesn't make an argument. Ignorance is not an argument my dear friend

As for your edit, you just mix subjective opinions which shouldn't be a big part of review (that makes it biased) with objective info and comparison.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted October 30, 2008 06:40 PM

No think of it like this:

There is this game called X1, it's a FPS. Then X2 appears. Then X3. Then after a lot of time, X100 is released. It is a very good game in itself. Each "sequel" added a very tiny amount of new stuff, but now it is a brilliant game, compared to X1 (for example). Then Y gets released which is totally different. Still, I would pick X100 given it's remarkable high amount of features, even though it is very similar to X99, or has the base of X1. It's a lot more enjoyable than Y (which let's say, it's bad but original). So why would it have a poor rating because it's very similar to X99? At best it can have a BETTER rating since it's a BETTER game in itself than X99, if you haven't played the former. And even if you HAVE played the former, if it has an "extra" feature then it's BETTER. Just because it's very alike doesn't make it bad, bad is when you don't want to play it.

For example, consider expansion packs. They could be considered mini-sequels. Consider that you play Heroes original. Then play some other games. After a month you want to play some TBS again. Will you choose Heroes 5 or Heroes 6 (let's say it has more features)?

Seriously, which one will be more enjoyable? The sequel of course, if it has more features (this isn't always the case but let's assume it is!). Doesn't matter it's very similar to the previous one.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2008 06:42 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:45, 30 Oct 2008.

Sequels are completely different stuff. I am comparing different games of the same genre. Sequel SHOULD be similar to predecessors, otherwise it shouldn't be named after it. ;p

Is someone makes his own Heroes VI game, which will be nearly identical to Heroes 6, just named different and using different creatures, he deserves bashing no matter how good his game is (it doesn't make the game worthless, but he should be criticized for it.), assuming H6 was released first. And it 100 games like H6 preceded it, it deserves MAJOR bashing.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted October 30, 2008 06:55 PM

If someone makes a game called X which is identical to heroes (of course, not violating copyrights, but gameplay-wise) and has possibly a new feature, I would play it. Why wouldn't I? Just because it is unoriginal? Well then, why should I waste time playing Heroes when that game at least has a new feature? (supposing I'm only after features of course, because story or theme is different: let's suppose the game is the same in those aspects)

In fact, judging from ratings (your logic), it means the game is pretty bad right? Well then how come it is better than Heroes when you play it (because it has a new feature)? Or even if it doesn't have a new feature, it's similar in playing and you will enjoy it the same. How come it has such a bad rating? If one didn't play it, he will assume it's a game that is not as fun as Heroes, which is simply not true.

(of course theme is also important: if a game has factions made with clowns I'm not gonna have fun with it that's for sure )


So it is either the fact that review ratings are pointless because it doesn't say how enjoyable a game is, and this also means that bad ratings =/= the game is not worth playing (since like I explained above it would be the same or better than Heroes)... So what are ratings for then? Review RATINGS will then become either misleading or pointless. Of course you can say the game is unoriginal which is perfectly true. That doesn't mean you won't enjoy it. Especially if you never played something like that before.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted October 30, 2008 06:58 PM

Objectively, it is nothing but another h6 with an added feature (and a plagiarism). It doesn't matter whether you will play it or not. It will still be like that.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted October 30, 2008 07:05 PM

Quote:
Objectively, it is nothing but another h6 with an added feature (and a plagiarism).
Exactly, so it has a better rating having an added feature

Of course I don't mean that what you say is false! By all means, it is perfectly true that it is unoriginal, a copy, plagiarism and whatever else. However, it isn't more "crappy" than Heroes, and in my opinion that's what makes a rating. I mean, after all, we look at ratings when we say "is this game worth playing?" and in this case, it is worth playing (if Heroes is that is ).

Of course fans of Heroes should also read the review to see that it's a copy so if they are looking for something new or different they'll be disappointed. That doesn't mean that playing Heroes is less disappointing, so to speak, except for the fact that they don't have to pay for it again. (since they already have it)
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2008 09:47 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:52, 30 Oct 2008.

oh and btw

Shredder is imba

This is training mode but if you fail one block in a real game against a good shredder player (definitely NOT AI ), you may end up like this punching bag

also

eyecandy combo at 0:34
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