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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: Strike Out Engine?
Thread: Strike Out Engine? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted November 01, 2008 11:28 AM

Strike Out Engine?

Lately been introduced to this strikeout system.. likedalots, it adds formality to the game along with a fair and decent matchup..

..however..

having to load 3 times is quite a turnoff.. could someone construct a 'strike out engine' that generates random matchups? all need is 3 - 5 slots with all heroes and who choose first.. somthing like this:

-hero?-  vs - hero?-
-hero?-  vs - hero?-
-hero?-  vs - hero?-

strikes first:
player1 - player2

idan?


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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 01, 2008 11:54 AM

can be done with excel....
but can really see the point cause everyone is free to change hero on day 1 so lets say you choose Erling.... in game day1 Ingvar shows up in tavern...  
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted November 01, 2008 12:18 PM

Sure but it would be pretty handy to have one. Idan was the first to come in mind when I saw the topic
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Destro23
Destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted November 01, 2008 01:11 PM

It wouldn't be that difficult to decide that players were going to keep the hero selected either.  

But in any event, I think the strikeout for regular games is more of a faction decision and to generate 3-5 random factions sadly we do still have to load the game so it would help with that alot

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 01, 2008 02:55 PM
Edited by samiekl at 15:06, 01 Nov 2008.

it's easy to be done in java if someone has the time/will to do it

Quote:
so lets say you choose Erling.... in game day1 Ingvar shows up in tavern...  

I thought all heroes are ok as they are

I could do it, but my time is very limited at the moment, but if no one else does it, i believe i can have it ready till next weekend.

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted November 01, 2008 03:25 PM

Strike sistem is very bad. If we play random its mean random luck. If we dont want so much random luck can choice race/heroes. Generate few games and strike from them is totaly bad for me and alot more unfair from full random.
Good example for how bad is this "kispagat" idea is my match vs him. From 5 games  i was 3 orc and 2 necro. He was 5 different races. Do you think i have realy choice from this strike sistem?

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted November 01, 2008 03:26 PM

Well I think what Fiur is trying to say is... instead of having it say

Hero vs. Hero

Should have it say:

Faction vs. Faction


Because as Fiur POinted out... people dont think they should have to keep what ever hero the strike out dealt them... So pointless to list the heroes when they will simply take someone better from tavern.


I always thought that was point of Strike out system was to decide the town AND HERO so as to avoid any arguements over who got to pick there best town and the POWER heroes etc.   But I found out the Hard way in my ceasar game with Jorko... when I kept and played my strike out hero... and Jorko switched from his strike out hero to HAGGASH.


SO I guess:

Faction vs. Faction

Would be the way to go?
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Destro23
Destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted November 01, 2008 03:29 PM

Yes of course you do.

The strike out system serves 2 purposes.. #1 to make sure you don't get a faction you really don't want to play with, and #2 it allows you to control some of the random luck element by striking out a matchup that seriously favors the opponent.

Its not perfect of course, but its alot better than me picking a faction/hero and my opponent then choosing an ideal counter faction to my choice.  

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted November 01, 2008 03:35 PM

 Actualy strike sistem is another way to use luck for put oponent in more bad possition. If we generate 3 games and 2 i will have very bad match and 1 very good my oponent can strike this good for me and i will have choice from 2 bad. From other side if we just set all random and start from 1st try we cant know what from them will roll. Can be my luck game not both bad. So for me Strike sistem is more unfair compare full random and just play.
 Simple i will not use it in any my games in future. Dont know why ppl all time try to make rules for "better balance" and its give for result only more problems.

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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted November 01, 2008 04:24 PM

Elit, did someone hire you as devil advocate?

Screw balance for a sec. I have here opponent X on the other side, like him or not make no difference, and we are going to play a 6h game..

Why waste it on a matchup that one of us dont feel good with? I may have played e.g necro town 3 times in row, what if i get same town 4th in row, following your 'random luck choice' system? then i prefer report loss i tell ya, than doing somthing boringly freaky

Up till now i just ask opponent 'all k there?', if he says 'no', i reload with no questions asked. But this gives game a kinda friendly tone which i dont like much..

And, btw, strikeout can be done with 5 choices as well, and each will strike out 2, And personally, i find hero-hero ,much more fun. Cause yea, fiur say, may buy from tavern too 2nd best, yet is not the same, if you can feel the slight difference..
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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted November 01, 2008 04:46 PM

But why cant people TAKE the Hero that strike out offers also... That should be part of the consideration when striking.. Maybe you like the town but not the Hero.. etc..

But to just beable to pick any Power hero that is offered when you get in game doesnt make sense...

Forexample.. I might decide that I strike out and am ok with opponent having Sylvan.. BUT would never let him have sylvan WITH OSSIR... and when we get in game he changes from anwen to OSSIR... well now we are right back to the unbalancedness that we was at if we woulda just went random and took what we got.
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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted November 01, 2008 04:50 PM

devil advocate is a nice move but i'm not Keanu Reeves

Heroes 5 is create very well. You have option for choice race/hero, race and  go random hero or go all random. What is this strike sistem now?  Someting like choice race but not in real. In my match vs Kispagat we generate 5 games for play 3. From all this 5 games i have option to be orc x3 and necro x2. He was all time different races. Where was my real choice? If you dont like so much 1 race you can simple ban it. In my match vs CHN-VIMP he say: "i dont want to be inferno" and we simple restart when random match give him inferno one from games.
Here realy no any idea/point to use this strike sistem.

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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 01, 2008 04:53 PM

ty Jinxer my point excatly..  
if I gonna use strikeouts  play with the "strike" hero or just play random...!
else just town strike even better  
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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted November 01, 2008 05:30 PM

Quote:
In my match vs CHN-VIMP he say: "i dont want to be inferno"
ok then.. how about this reply: "sure.. you go report and we start new"

and dont get me wrong, this strke thing is not 'my case' i really did it only 2 times so far.. however am bored of either totally random- and me having to always play the 'good cop' part amd rarely like pick- only when mood for some medicre campaign hero for new face shake


so to my question:
CANT I PLAY A DECENT OR FAIR MATCHUP, WITHOUT MY BEHAVIOUR STYLE INTERFERE?

answer is:
STRIKOUT ENGINE


..cause i really NOt going to load 4 times again to play a game, isnt bout the time loss, is about i like to get hooked on what i get day1.. my system gets confused
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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted November 01, 2008 05:33 PM

[i dont edit previos post i start like russi anagram msipel way of tipe it add prestige ]
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Kispagat
Kispagat


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2008 10:57 AM

I hope that some people could manage to do strike out engine.

And please, dont let to be influenced by people who dont understand, or dont want to understand the intention of striking out.

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted November 02, 2008 11:31 AM

Near feature.Year 2010. Place TOH. Instruction to start playing Heroes 5 on TOH.
To start playing on TOH you need a few things - super balanced map, respect our 150 rules, 3 super balanced mods, 10 programs for true random hero selection. Remark - all native heroes are banned, UBI maps banned. Please use only our super balanced custom maps and heroes ... HF and Gl ... P.S. If you feel you loosed game unfair, contact us, our new mod will fix that ...  
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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 02, 2008 05:06 PM

for those who got microsoft excel I'vemade one....

just click here

(you may get an security warning... just click option=> enable bla bla.....
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Strider_HL
Strider_HL


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2008 05:51 PM
Edited by Strider_HL at 17:51, 02 Nov 2008.

Another marvelous incentive from our master Fiur Thx a lot!

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Fraudatio
Fraudatio


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2008 07:22 PM

wow, that was really great!! I`ll use that no doubt. Thanks a lot

Btw - I really dont understand the argument about "stay with main or use random faction". You are simply missing one strategic element in your reasoning.

If i know that Kispagat is Kilghan, i have to take into the equation the odds of him getting one of the very good orc heroes. He has a bit more that 1/7 chance of getting each one, and since there are many fierce orc heroes I have to put considerate faction over hero in this situation. As if other factions i may not be that afraid of getting much better heroes and i can put more weight to the actual startinghero.

Its something slightly different thatn chosing faction as it is one less unknown in the equation.

Anyways, with Hero style it is quite simple



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