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| Thread: different amounts of upgrades? | |
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stankelbenet
Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
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posted November 18, 2008 04:54 PM |
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different amounts of upgrades?
I've seen a lot of lame upgrades like (HoMM3)orc to orc chieftain just giving more health, shots, damage and another axe.
I think some creatures should have more upgrades while others don't have any at all. It's made before in HoMM2. That way we could get the awesome Roc=>Thunderbird=>Phoenix :cool
PS: I know you all will answer "no" but i just wanted to see if anybody has the same opinion as mine
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted November 18, 2008 05:01 PM |
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Don't be so pessimistic - have you yet heard of "Self-fulfilling prophecies" ?
I allready thought of it before, too, but it's not so linear and it again increases the chance of making the game unbalanced I guess.
But I agree that upgrades shoudl definitely not only be: An even stronger version of the creature!
NO, they should be a specialized version of the creature - and that's the point: You should not jsut cut off upgrades for som,e creatures just because extraordinary ideas don't just pop to ones mind immediately, but be creative and find logical AND innovative upgrades - and I also think the two-upgrades-to-choose-from in TOE was among the best advantages of HoMM5
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted November 18, 2008 05:13 PM |
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I just don't get why some people prefer to not have upgrades at some levels than to have lame upgrades. Sure, you're right, it's not very interesting to have just "a stronger creature" when upgraded, but why is it better if there would be no such upgrade?
So yes, my opinion is that all creatures should have upgrades, even if they are just "a stronger creature". Of course, I would like to see as many "interesting" upgrades as possible.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 18, 2008 05:35 PM |
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Eh - isn't an upgrade supposed to be a stronger version of the base creature? Surely, the upgrade should be worthwhile, but how far will we stretch credibility for interesting features? Roc > Thunderbird? Griffin > Phoenix? Zombie > Black Dragon?
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What will happen now?
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 18, 2008 05:46 PM |
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I want it back to, its kind of easyer to balance since there may be fewer creatures made.
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stankelbenet
Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
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posted November 18, 2008 07:33 PM |
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who talked 'bout balance?
sure a balanced game would be cool. But that kind of thing is nothing but a dream. Blizzard has used so much time making patches for WoW and it still isn't balanced. I think we can give up making a balanced heroes VI.
By the way... the thing with the rocs, tunderbirds and phoenixes is that they are all giant birds and that they would match well together
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted November 18, 2008 07:39 PM |
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I have to confess tha tI donto at all think the upgrade range Roc-> Thunderbird -> Phoenix would be good. It is mythological not good...btu you could do it like:
Roc upgrades to Thunderbird OR Firebird
Firebird upgrades to Phoenix
Thunderbird upgrades to GAruda (?am i right here? isn't garuda a mythical bird slightly connected to storm/thunder?)
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted November 18, 2008 07:41 PM |
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I loved the way things was working in HoMM2, The new system in Tribes is even better. so No use in changing the well known system we have, it is by far the best we have had and we shall keep it or atleast improve it.
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 18, 2008 09:05 PM |
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Actually, I wouldn't put the Roc in with either the Phoenix or (in hindsight) the Thunderbird, they're both magical, while it's merely very large (okay, that's a sort of magic in itself, but meh). Roc would actually fit closer with the Hindu-Buddist Garuda, the Jewish Juchne (Bar Juchne actually) and Ziz, and the Babylonian Zig, all of which are described as having wingspans large enough to blot out the sun. (isn't Wikipedia wonderful)
The way I'd do the Firebird side is to have the Firebird as the base creature then upgrade it into either the Phoenix or the Thunderbird (Although the Persian Simurgh/Angha or Huma would also work).
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted November 19, 2008 05:49 AM |
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I used a similar system in a concept of mine. Some creatures had more upgrades, others none at all. But my upgrades also changed the tier of the unit. You can find it here.
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stankelbenet
Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
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posted February 05, 2009 09:26 PM |
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Quote:
I have to confess tha tI donto at all think the upgrade range Roc-> Thunderbird -> Phoenix would be good. It is mythological not good...btu you could do it like:
Roc upgrades to Thunderbird OR Firebird
Firebird upgrades to Phoenix
Thunderbird upgrades to GAruda (?am i right here? isn't garuda a mythical bird slightly connected to storm/thunder?)
The great thing about myths is that they are all copies of eachother . Some thought the the roc had red feathers like the phoenix and other thought it was just an oversized eagle. All these giant birds are related to eachother and you can't say that they can't be connected.
Also HOMM doesn't need to follow the myths. In fact it doesn't already. Titans are the children of Gaia and Oranos and the parents of the greek gods. They are not related to giants in any way. They are not even huge. Of course later pictures of the gods represents them as huge beings but they aren't. Titans don't throw with thunderbolts. Zeus did and he threw 'em at the titans . So stop blaming the giant birds .
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 05, 2009 09:53 PM |
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That's one of the good things about pulling from myths, if you look hard enough you find something that works. For Example, the Upgrade of the Roc could well be the Garuda, as could be the Bar Juchne, without crossing the line into the realm of the Phoenix or Thunderbird. The Firebird/Phoenix lineup could be given a second upgrade by adding in the Angha, while the Huma could also be added, or could alternatively be viewed as a water-bird, as could the Simurgh.
And that's not even all the big mythical birds.
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted February 06, 2009 12:12 AM |
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Some how we have in H5 different amounts of upgrades in H5.
The faction a like have two alternative upgrades in ToTe, and the neutral ones don't have any.
As i see this i would say that the lower the tier the more variants of upgrades there should be. Lets say:
Tier 1 -> 4 (or 5)
Tier 2,3,4 -> 3
Tier 5, 6 -> 2
Tier 7,8 -> no or one very expensive and rare upgrade
And there is that why make an alternative upgrades just because every tier has it. If it is logical and possible and the upgrade makes an sense then it should be. Don't make something if you don't feel it is right.
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Mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted February 06, 2009 01:02 AM |
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i came up with a system once...
I ditched it because it would make balancing tough. Not to mention the neutral problem. (you get base unit he gets. The second upgrade)
It worked something like
1 units with no upgrades
2 alt upgrades
2 1 upgrades
1 double upgrade
1 double alt...
ofc this is something i'd like to see... it would diversify factions
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted February 06, 2009 01:09 AM |
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Yes i could be a good idea.
Quote:
I ditched it because it would make balancing tough.
the more work is some one sacrficing for making something better the better are the results in gameplay. I can only pray that the H6 game makers will take that words seriously.
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