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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 09, 2010 07:00 PM |
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Just for the record. This here
Quote:
It would not be just as valid because it would boost 7 units, not 1-3 like Archery.
is definitely not a valid point, because you don't boost your own units you de-boost the opposing Archers. You can see that easily enough - it's a worthless skill if THE OPPONENT doesn't have ranged units.
@ blizzard
your point is valid; however, in this case the Archery skill should look this way (and I think something like this makes it a lot better)
Basic Archery: Gives +X% damage for your own Archers; reduces damage of opposing shooters by Y%.
And so on.
Wouldn't that be a better "Archery" skill?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 09, 2010 07:20 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 19:22, 09 Feb 2010.
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Well if my point is not valid then you're argument is pretty much just as invalid. Simply because the perk would be useless without the enemy archers doesn't mean that it isn't a boost to your units.
It's actually not that difficult to understand.
With Arcery: Shooters become more powerful. That's a specific number let's say Academy so 3. Bonuses will only aply to those 3 units.
With Evasion: Any target of an enemy shooter get's protected against ranged attacks, bonuses will (most likely) affect any targeted unit. And since a shooter can pretty much target any unit we have 7 beneficaries from a skill like Evasion against the max. 3 of Archery. Whether you argue that it's a debuff for the Archers or a buff for the targets is pretty irrelevant since it doesn't change the fact that a skill like evasion will ultimately effect a greater number of units than a skill such as archery.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 09, 2010 07:48 PM |
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If you have SEVEN units in your army and you buff ONE (ranged damage plus X%, that ONE unit can pick (provided there are seven different targets) out of seven targets.
Are you really claiming now that if I can what you call buff ONE of my units (suffers X% less ranged damage), that this is AS "valuable"?
For me, that's not even worth a discussion. If you claim so, fine, I'm not going to debate over it, makes no sense. It's so elementary that I won't waste any time with it.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 09, 2010 08:04 PM |
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It not as valuable it's more valuable. My opinion on that comes from my experience with the game. If you have a different oppinion and you choose to hold on to your idea that's fine. It's just that a skill like evasion will have a much greater impact on the actual battle. You priorities will be different. With evasion shooters will pose less of an threat which in turn leaves you with up to 3 less targets to deal with (atleast in terms of prioritzing) which is a much greater advantage than having up to 3 buffed units. But as you say discussing this with you will be a hopeless endavour.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 09, 2010 08:25 PM |
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Quote:
@ blizzard
your point is valid; however, in this case the Archery skill should look this way (and I think something like this makes it a lot better)
Basic Archery: Gives +X% damage for your own Archers; reduces damage of opposing shooters by Y%.
And so on.
Wouldn't that be a better "Archery" skill?
Yeah as long as you renamed it to something more general like "Agility" to fit with the broader skill, that would make it a stronger stand-alone skill.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 09, 2010 08:28 PM |
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@ Azagal
You are just dead wrong and being impolite doesn't help - while it is true that a damage plus on, say, 2 units will affect only two units, those two units can effect ALL, that is, up to 7.
Evasion will affect all or up to 7 units - but only against, say, 2 out of 7.
The bottom line is this;
Archery affects ALL units in an (army);
Evasion as well.
If your army has only two shooting stacks, then Archery will affect only two units.
If you face an army with only 2 shootersm then Evasion will still affect ALL of your units - but only against TWO of the opponent.
If you think that Evasion is better than Archery, then it has nothing to do with experience, but only with your priorities - I, for example, usually take neither Archery nor Evasion, except in certain special cases.
But, hey, what do I know.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 10, 2010 09:18 PM |
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Ok, it's my turn to totally butcher you guys this round. Sorry, but I just don't see a lot of good entries here! Most of these either a) revive extinct Heroes 3 skills (hey guys, they went extinct for a reason!), b) overlaps with another skill, or c) seems imbalanced. I'm surprised no-one jumped at the (to me) obvious entry:
Combat
Basic: Hero direct attack consumes 10 % less ATB.
Advanced: Hero direct attack consumes 20 % less ATB.
Expert: Hero direct attack consumes 30 % less ATB.
Anyway, your scores:
Veco
Archery
I must admit I myself very fond of having Archery placed under Attack. Having two skills that increase attack damage seems redundant. I can see you sweeten the deal by giving a larger bonus and also some other benefits, but I still don't think this adds very much to the game in a positive way. The idea to decrease wall protection effects etc. could just as easily be another perk following Archery.
Creativity: 5
Realism: 6
Arcax
Magic Talent
Hmmm ... not that surprising, is it? The old Sorcery is back. For me, it's too much of a one-trick horse. It's a no-brainer when you have Destructive Magic and practically useless otherwise. Doesn't add much strategic elements to the game for me.
Creativity: 4
Realism: 6
JollyJoker
Economics
Yuks - another Heroes 3 skill that was blissfully packed away as a perk. Yes, at least you amend it by making it level dependant which is necesary (as a perk of a skill). To your credit, the skill is now at least usefull, but also a bit boring.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 6
Berny-Mac
Culinary Magic
Now look guys - here is something creative. I'm wondering how heavy liquor will increase initiative, however? *lol* Anyway, it's a decent perk, notice that a percentual increase makes fast units relatively faster and slow units relatively slower - a fixed increase can have the advantage that it has relatively stronger impact on slow units. Notice that the current initiative system is pretty poorly balanced which will make a "free" +15 % initiative boost a game-killer.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 5
Mamgaeater
Illusion
Hmmm - this is not a skill in itself, it's rather a perk selection, as it only works in context with another skill (namely Summoning).
Creativity: 4
Realism: 2
Fauch
Magic Support
This is one of the few suggestions I can actually see work and add something to the game. +100 % mana will be very useful if it also affects charges for unit abilities - as it is, the skill is probably too narrow to warrant a whole skill slot (you don't have more than one or two casting units in each faction).
Creativity: 8
Realism: 6
Zenithale
Heroism
It overlaps with Enlightenment which makes it somewhat redundant. That being said, I think there IS a poin in the XP boost, and I think the XP boost of Enlightenment is too low. So well ... it has some good points, even if it wouldn't fit perfectly in the current skill system.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 6
VokialBG
Art Of War
Ehm ... useless? At level 20 with Expert, you get some +60 % increase to all skills, or what? That's +12 points ... which I don't think is too bad. Again, a huge overlap with Enlightenemnt here, which makes it somewhat redundant.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 6
Azagal
Maneuverability
Ok finally something which is BOTH creative AND adds a strategic element to the game AND doesn't overlap with another skill. It's usefull, seems fairly realistic and not too imbalanced to my oppinion.
Creativity: 9
Realism: 8
____________
What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2010 10:05 PM |
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Quote:
JollyJoker
Economics
Yuks - another Heroes 3 skill that was blissfully packed away as a perk. Yes, at least you amend it by making it level dependant which is necesary (as a perk of a skill). To your credit, the skill is now at least usefull, but also a bit boring.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 6
I agree. It's not that creative. However, it deals with a field that's wasteland in H5, and it offers a plethora of interesting perk chances.
In fact, if you play on impossible diff in H5, such a skill would become quite interesting.
I prefer to see that as a skill of Heroes FOUR that should have made it into Heroes 5.
In short, I think you underrate the skill. It's called ECONOMICS for a reason.
Umm, for your COMBAT skill, yes, the idea indeed presented itself. However - perks? I mean, personal attack is Sylvan special skill, so I'm curious here. Any perks?
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted February 10, 2010 11:12 PM |
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Sigh...
Quote:
Hmmm - this is not a skill in itself, it's rather a perk selection, as it only works in context with another skill (namely Summoning).
hence why summoning is a prerequisite.
and many skills only work in conjunction with another skill. sorcery for example. My perk is just more fine tuned than sorcery and alot more narrow in application.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 11, 2010 01:33 AM |
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Quote:
Fauch
Magic Support
This is one of the few suggestions I can actually see work and add something to the game. +100 % mana will be very useful if it also affects charges for unit abilities
no, it is supposed to be one of the perks actually.
the skill itself only affects spellcasters, but the perks may affect much more creatures abilities.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 11, 2010 02:56 AM |
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Okay, final scores updated in my judging post.
HCM's sent to Fauch and JollyJoker. We'll start up the next round before long.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 11, 2010 03:17 AM |
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That was fast.
Round 24:
For this round, create two perks for the Magic Support skill, as shown here:
Quote:
Magic support
Increases the mana and spellpower of all the friendly spellcasters stacks.
Basic : +25% mana +12.5% spellpower
Advanced : +50% mana +25% spellpower
Expert : +100% mana +50% spellpower
Your perks must be universal for all factions, and require only Basic Magic Support (so they should be basic perks, like Battle Frenzy is for the Attack skill).
Deadline is February 16th.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 11, 2010 03:19 AM |
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 11, 2010 03:24 AM |
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Ah screw it, I was mulling over making it two. Hopefully since they're basic perks the entries won't be a pain in the *** to judge.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 11, 2010 03:30 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 21:32, 17 Feb 2010.
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Arcane Anathema
Reduces the mana of enemy Spellcasters by 50%.
Veteran
Casters who have survive the fields of battle have grown compared to their peers from their academies or temples. All casters gain +4 SP and +1 Knowledge if they've survived 5 battles.
EDIT: Since I didn't find any info on the prerequests for that skilled I guessed it was Sorcery. If not Fauch please enlighten me as to which skill is. Goodie thanks I'll scrap this (In Master's Graces) one then.
In Master's Graces
The heroes Mastery of Sorcery applies to spells cast by Units aswell (so casting consumes 10, 20 or 30% less atb depending on the heroes mastery. This works with morale)
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Berny-mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted February 11, 2010 03:32 AM |
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Accumulation of Power
With every spell cast, the hero's spellpower increases by 1 temporarily per battle.
Arcane Sight
On the adventure map, your hero is allowed to spend 10 mana to reveal a small part of the map. Maximum amount of times you can cast Arcane Sight per day is 3.
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Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 11, 2010 03:33 AM |
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actually, 3 would make more sense, like in the game
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Berny-mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted February 11, 2010 03:34 AM |
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what, for me?
Well, that'd be kinda imba, wouldn't it? I mean, just imagine giving that to a level 25 Sinitar who has expert destructive. Now with every army demolishing meteor shower he casts, it gets that much more powerful? Yeah...very imba.
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Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 11, 2010 03:37 AM |
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Quote:
actually, 3 would make more sense, like in the game
Not a chance.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 11, 2010 03:38 AM |
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He's talking about Perks Berny . And why would it make "more" sense to create 3? I mean more? Sure it helps with putting your perks into "context" but dude 8 participants times 3 perks is 24 entries... don't you think that's a bit harsh? What's wrong with just one perk?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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This thread is pages long: 
