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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 24, 2010 11:13 PM |
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You need to tell me which one you're using.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 24, 2010 11:33 PM |
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that doesn't make a big difference, the 2 perks are almost identical. but it's more logical to rate them both together. as if it was only one perk.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted February 24, 2010 11:38 PM |
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You need to tell me which one you're going to use. Those two perks won't get the same score.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 25, 2010 12:07 AM |
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the one which will get the best score 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2010 11:52 AM |
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Here are my scores for this round. Overall a decent perk selection, if only a few I found spot-on. Most of you had trouble finding suitable basic perks (which was perhaps not surprising - but some of the obvious ones were only taken in 4th or 5th entry, so that can not be the full excuse).
Mamgaeater
Power Of Gold
Fun perk. It's pretty simple, but it would work well enough. I would have used the word 'greed' in the name, but ok. The balance seems decent, as you'll only rarely have a bonus in early game, have +1 fairly easily in mid-game and in late-game have +2 bonus.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 8
Shrewdness
I don't see the relation between the name and the perk effect? The effect is quite good I suppose, it works well with the overall nature of the skill, and it seems suitable for a basic perk, as it deels with an overall effect that's not covered elsewhere in the game. 15 % is probably reasonable, it's hard to say for sure.
Creativity: 9
Realism: 9
Berny-Mac
Private Armies
I'm not sure on the details on how this perk works. From where will you recruit them - will it require a certain building in town, do you need to be in town, or do you recruit in town as long as you have this skill? I'm not too keen on the whole idea, it does seem a bit contrary to certain basic principles of the game. I guess you can say that if you have overload of money, it allows you a safety line, but I'm not really sure it makes sense in terms of game strategy.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 3
Economic Warfare
Hmmm ok, that's novel. I guess this would basically work as if your Hero is a marketplace in himself, thus bringing the cost down? A bit odd, but I guess it could work.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 7
JollyJoker
Mining
Of course, it had to come. A very natural perk with this skill. It seems reasonably balanced as well, and would be highly useful in game.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 10
Builder
That's a very interesting and creative perk. My initial thought was "no", but giving the restrictions that a) hero must be visiting, b) it consumes full movement and last but not least c) he must have level to match town level (that is brilliant ballancing!), I was swayed over. I actually think the 50 % build cost increase is over the top - that simply renders the skill pretty much useless. Apart from that: Thumps up!
Creativity: 10
Realism: 9
Fauch
Charity For The Poor
Ok, that's a novel idea. I kind of like it, although I'm not sure it's fair to make it dissimilar to good and evil - I can understand your reasoning, but given that people seem to favor taking money, the skill only makes sense if you do something to improve taking XP.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 7
Ressources and Gold Aplenty
I'm not sure I understand the point of the latter skill - it would make your ressources earn you more gold in Marketplace I suppose? I can kind of follow your idea on this perk, but I think a better perk would simply be to have the hero increase the effective number of marketplaces by one or two (similar to Berny-Macs idea).
Creativity: 6
Realism: 5
Arcax
Gold Sack
Ha ha, I think this is one of the most random perks I've seen so far. I think it actually work work if you could sacrifice a certain amount of gold to make a barrier, and then you lost the number of gold the barrier has in HP's (or 10 times that amount perhaps?) - for instance, if you put 2000 gold into the barrier, it will have 200 (or 2000? Seems a lot) HP, but you actually loose the amount of gold. Would be sort of fun. Not that fitting for a basic perk imo.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 6
Azagal
Iron Whip
I still love your skill names. If I understand you correctly, you get double production for 7 days, but then 0 production for the next TWELVE days? That actually decreases your overall output, and that doesn't seem very reasonable. Yes, I know you'll get ressources faster, but still - I'd say you should shorten the dead time to perhaps 5 days, so that you actually gain a number of bonus ressources (to make the skill worth it!) or maybe 7 days to make it break even (you don't get more ressources, they just come faster). Otherwise, I'd say it's a bit weak.
Creativity: 9
Realism: 7
Bribe
This is a pretty interesting concept. A few details: I think it would be easier to say that cost is the cost of the entire stack (which is still pretty hefty), and I'm not sure on being able to bribe two stacks. Well, it's a bit difficult to evaluate the full consequences of this perk. It would probably, as JJ says, be a good advanced/expert perk coupled with Diplomacy, but no-one said you had to make basic perks. Perhaps you can keep units if they match your own army (i.e. you already have a stack of this creature? - would make it a bit more usefull).
Creativity: 9
Realism: 7
Mytical
Insider Trading
A universal 5 % discount seems imbalanced. The in-town discount seems more reasonable, but again adds an annoying level of micromanagement, and also makes it something you only put on secondaries. I guess as allways a per-level discount would make best sense? Perhaps something like a 0.5 % * level actively or 0.25 % * level passively, or whatever numbers.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 6
VokialBG
Mining Co-operations
Well, more is more ... Not sure how often this perk will be truely useful? I mean, it's often only in later game that you have two of a certain mine, and when you do, you're often not in that urgent a need for more of that ressource. Of course, that's generalising, but it seems to me that the basic Mining perk of JJ is better. Perhaps this would be an advanced perk? Your description doesn't say ...
Creativity: 8
Realism: 6
Agrarian co-operations
Mutually exclusive perks? I guess that kind of things should be fixed through construction of skill tree (i.e. both being in circle 3). As for the perk - it seems to merge Recruitement and Vitality. I can follow the reasoning behind the theme, and I guess as an advanced perk it could actually work, possibly coupled with Recruitement.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 6
____________
What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 25, 2010 12:27 PM |
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After this round, allow me a word here, and I'd be happy about many answers, but first a remark on the Builder perk.
It has been rated well enough, and I have to say myself that I'm very satisfied with this perk. It's main use - in my opinion - would be especially ON HIGHER DIFFICULTY, to slip in the cheap "fillers" you simply have to build to get on with town level, but without wasting too much money/resources. Examples would be the MarketPlace, a 1st lvl unit upgrade and so on.
In general, with the money gain the SKILL offers and with the Mining/Haggling skills (see below) it wouldn't be too difficult to pay the additional costs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I think, that this round was not as "good" as it could have been. I guess, everyone who made a skill in the last round, did make sure that the skill would offer enough perks, and mine was no exception. I agree with Alci, that some very obvious BASIC (and BASIC perks were asked for, Alci, not advanced ones) perks were missing.
One was a Market/Haggling perk. Mamgaeatergor one in; I commented on it, and as a result he deleted it. With Azagal it was basically the same: a brillant basic idea that was missing a little something, and when I had an idea, I tried to give a little input on it (the alternative "bribe" perk is still there to read).
While I understand pride and competition, in this case I feel that it's rather detrimental to things. I mean, we don't get a prize or something, it's just a creative pastime with competetive character, and while it would certainly go too far to comment on everything, in this special case - perks for NEW skills - wouldn't it be ok for the creator of the skill (for the following rounds as well, of course) to comment or something?
I mean, as a result, good ideas are left out.
One problem in connection with this is that BASIC perks are less numerous in the game than advanced ones and therefor there are not so many suggesting themselves, right? So TWO of them for everyone seems excessive, because it's clear, when 3 or 4 people have made their entries, it gets difficult.
So just one might be better. I don't know whether advanced skills for them are to follow, but if not, a basic perk and an advanced perk (needing the basic one as a prerequisite) might be a better way to go.
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"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2010 01:00 PM |
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Of course it's always difficult to make perks for another person's skill, but I agree that when you make basic perks (I noticed that afterwords, JJ, that it actually DID say basic perks), you should try to come up with 3 well defined branches for the skill. Notice how most of the skills have basic perks that reflect different core areas of the skill theme. For instance Defence has Protection (defence from Magic), Evasion (defence from Ranged attacks) and Vitality (making your units more durable).
I think most perks suggested here actually fell pretty close to the two themes I see for this perk, namely:
ECONOMICS > Yields more GOLD
1) Resources > Something that yields more resources (Mining, Guilds, etc)
2) Trading > Something that gives you better trade options, discounts, market places, bribing, etc.
3) ?
The two first branches are what I consider the "obvious" picks, and there were several good suggestions within each of these (even if not all of them were suitable for basic perks). Combining your different perks, one could actually make a viable skill tree for these two branches.
Interestingly, not a lot of suggestions fell outside these two categories. Perhaps the Builder skill did, and there were a couple of more or less succesful couplings with Might skills here also (Power Of Gold, Private Armies and Gold Sack did this with various degrees of succes), while none of you attempted to make a coupling between this skill and something magic.
Notice that almost all skills has a "magic" perk branch, or at least a notable magic-related perk in the second circle - there were none of those here (albeit being limited to only first circle, I guess that can be excused).
____________
What will happen now?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 25, 2010 01:14 PM |
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D'uh why didn't you say something about magic earlier Alc?!
Philosopher's stone
Every Ore stack you visit turns to gold. Also your hero won't die of old age if you haven't finished a map by month 872 day 3.
And well Jolly perhaps it is pride but it's certainly not my sense of competition that doesn't like it when you "improve" my perk. I mean you're right perhaps something can be improved or something new found I just don't find it inparticularily subtle to go: "Oh yeah he thought of it but the perk is rubbish in his version". Of course you never said that but that's what it feels like.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 25, 2010 01:38 PM |
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I know what you mean, but if you get a score of 7 3 or something later on, isn't THAT saying it's rubbish with a vengeance?
To say, that something is rubbis isn't QUITE the same thing than saying, it might just be better still. Just because someone has a really good idea it doesn't mean the actual form the idea takes has to be brillant. Take for example the Builder perk who got an impressive 39 points: I changed it twice, including the name, and I'm sure the first version would have been lower in score.
In this specific case both you and Mamgaeater said that my ideas for the perk were good - but you were both too proud to work with them. I mean, it's just kind of adding to an idea - what's so wrong considering things under the new input?
As I said, it's not like we'd get a prize or something, so what does it matter?
EDIT: Let me add something here: if we want to have an additional round with advanced perks, we would have to agree on what basic perks to take (which might be always 3, but one or two more as well, for specific towns); logically, this would have to be the best-rated perks, but I wouldn't be happy with that if obvious perks were missing. In this case I do think - like Alci - that obvious perks are indeed missing, so that would mean that we should probably have to create them afterwards, to at least have a look at them.
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"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2010 02:05 PM |
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Quote:
D'uh why didn't you say something about magic earlier Alc?!
Well, nobody HAS to make a magic perk - my point is that sometimes, it can be a help to look on the broader perspective and look to other skills to make some sort of strategy to make things fit in better in the frame of the game. And when you are almost 10 contestants who have to come up with 2 perks each, it might help you to make something which is not too close to the others'.
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What will happen now?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 25, 2010 02:25 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:28, 25 Feb 2010.
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Alc I was kidding (the perk was suppose to be a joke you see ?). Don't worry everything you said was perfectly reasonable and it should really help with the creating process .
Heehe Jolly you have such a fun way of saying that your ideas are so much better than ones own^^. No I don't believe that a 7/3 would say the perk was rubbish. We've had a few perks already where Alc and Blizzard went in totally different directions, no? And even if both would give them 7/3 I still wouldn't think it's rubbish. It just means it wouldn't work very well for the game.
Quote:
but you were both too proud to work with them. I mean, it's just kind of adding to an idea - what's so wrong considering things under the new input?
I wasn't too proud to work with it I just didn't want to please your ego. It wouldn't have been my perk anymore. I conceeded that my perk wasn't optimal and that bribery along the lines of a unit not behaving as planned (be it forgetting one step, waiting a round, forgetting it's Spellbook, you name it, etc.) would have been a better basic idea just like you suggested in your comment. Would someone who's too prooud really do that?
But this is supposed to be a competition where you create a perk that gets a score. So why would it take something you said and make a perk out of it? That wouldn't be my perk anymore, would it? Even if it's better. And it's not like you don't have the nerve to assume that pretty much everything you say is an improvement (don't get me wrong your ideas are usually pretty good it's just how you say it that makes a big difference... and well the fact that they not always may be an improvement? But that's subjective).
The point of this competition isn't to make a good perk it's to make your own perk. If it's good then all the better but even if it doesn't get a "good" mark what's the big deal? I'm not here to win, I'm here because I enjoy making my own perks.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 25, 2010 03:20 PM |
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Quote:
Heehe Jolly you have such a fun way of saying that your ideas are so much better than ones own^^.
Oh, come on. You know, I used to work as an editor for a time, and I'm reminded of writers here. Writers are so touchy when it comes to giving them a hand - which is the darn JOB of an editor, by the way -, they just fight for each and every word and are LOATHE to accept a suggestion.
This is just the same thing.
I mean, if you give some formula in a perk, and someone suggests a better one, does that mean the other has a better idea than you? No, because he had no idea at all, he just fixed a detail.
Quote:
Quote:
but you were both too proud to work with them. I mean, it's just kind of adding to an idea - what's so wrong considering things under the new input?
I wasn't too proud to work with it I just didn't want to please your ego.
Do you really think my ego needs pleasing?
Anyway:
Quote:
It wouldn't have been my perk anymore. I conceeded that my perk wasn't optimal and that bribery along the lines of a unit not behaving as planned (be it forgetting one step, waiting a round, forgetting it's Spellbook, you name it, etc.) would have been a better basic idea just like you suggested in your comment. Would someone who's too prooud really do that?
Yes, of course. I said too proud, not blind. OF COURSE it would have been still your perk. As is a book that of the author, no matter how much the editor suggests to change. As long as you see your idea in there - and that bribery thing WAS your idea, and yours alone, no discussion about that one -, as long it is still YOUR perk.
From my side, it just hurts to see a really great idea, that offered more than was written.
Azagal, we had this in a way for the game skills, and I agreed: no more comments anymore.
However: These are perks for OUR skills, and pride or not, ego or not, my ego has an interest to see FINE perks for MY skill - the best possible - and I GLADLY contribute a little something, when I see it, to YOUR perk, because the better YOUR perk, the better MY skill. Right?
So in a way, the creators of the skills are judges as well here, wouldn't you agree?
I suppose you'll see that, when it's your own skill.
____________
"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 25, 2010 03:28 PM |
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Naaah you're right with your last point. Didn't quite see it that way to be honest, sorry about that. Of course it's cool that you care about your perk.
I'll be sure to reinterpret next time Mr. Editor. Fine tuning is perfectly acceptable just not overhauling a perk like keeping the core but changing everything else and I guess there is room for interpretation once suggestions are made.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 25, 2010 07:28 PM |
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Quote:
Ressources and Gold Aplenty
I'm not sure I understand the point of the latter skill - it would make your ressources earn you more gold in Marketplace I suppose? I can kind of follow your idea on this perk, but I think a better perk would simply be to have the hero increase the effective number of marketplaces by one or two (similar to Berny-Macs idea).
Creativity: 6
Realism: 5
well, but that doesn't really improve the marketplace, it makes resource cost more or less gold. actually, at 1st, it was supposed to affect everyone on the map, so you could take it to make some specific deals less favorable for your opponents.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2010 10:36 AM |
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Well, that was a lively discussion.
Anyway, looks like Blizzard is on holiday or something.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 01, 2010 03:22 PM |
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Quote:
Well, that was a lively discussion.
Indeed.
____________
What will happen now?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 02, 2010 04:28 AM |
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Quote:
Anyway, looks like Blizzard is on holiday or something.
Opposite. I'm on a temporary workaholic binge and loving it . We'll be starting tomorrow.
Final scores are up btw.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 02, 2010 05:26 PM |
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Round 26:
Create 2 basic perks for the Maneuverability skill, as seen below:
Quote:
Maneuverability
Prerequisite: Expert Logistics
Basic: 1 unit can ignore 1 small obstacle
Advanced: 2 units can also ignore medium obstacles.
Expert: 2 units can also ignore large obstacles and another one can ignore a small to medium obstacle.
When I say "ignore" I mean they can the occupy the same spot as they can in the battle screen ("stand on them" so to speak) aswell as not be obstructed by them in their movement.When standing on an obstacles they must however be adjectant to non-obstacle tile, so that for example a 1 tile unit can't hide in a 5 tile obstacle arrangement without the possibility of being hit.
Your perks must be universal for all factions, and require only Basic Maneuverability (and Expert Logistics by default).
Deadline is March -- OMG WE'RE IN MARCH! -- 9th.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted March 02, 2010 06:08 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 12:20, 06 Mar 2010.
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Sprint
A unit that defends during its turn will gain 50% (rounded down) of its speed for the next turn while only receiving half of the defense bonus .
High Ground
If the unit is standing on an obstacle there is a 33% chance that an attack will miss.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2010 07:16 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 14:15, 03 Mar 2010.
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Strategist
Double the precision of the battle map grid and so, the precision with which you can place and move your stacks. (only for your hero, not for your opponent) basically, each square composing the battle map grid is now divided in 4 identical squares.
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This thread is pages long: 
