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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 01, 2010 05:10 AM |
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Well, fauch,then create a supporting basic perk, only meant to be the basic for the advanced perk...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 01, 2010 08:58 AM |
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You had no problem to create two basic perks, had you? Everyone else doesn't seem to have a problem in doing so either.
Of course the real purpose of this is actually using the basic perk you create as a prerequisite - however, it is of course possible, like others showed, to create a basic perk specifically as a prerequisite for the advanced perk.
So, if you go back to the rounds before, where you had to create two basic perks, the actual task now is, to find an advanced one for one of those two basic perks as well, that will take part in the contest instead of one of those two basic ones.
If the basic perks are halfway good, advanced ones will suggest itself, won't they?
It's a tad more difficult.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 01, 2010 01:05 PM |
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So now, I'll rate jolly jokers perks.
Inspiring Example:
Hmmm, seems rather close to the Knights' Benediction perk, imho. So not too creative, except of the triggering by attack. Yet it seems rather balanced and reasonable.
Creativity: 3
Realism: 10
Berserker Charge:
Now that's more creative! Yet it seems not SO good, especially for the later game phase, when you often fight with larger armies ... and it's an advanced perk.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 5
Total Score: 25
Hope I wasn't too hard judging.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 01, 2010 01:32 PM |
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No, you wasn't too hard. 
However, we differ in terms of impact, ESPECIALLY in late game. First thing is +2 speed, which makes units a lot more mobile - including shooters like inquisitors and sharpshooters/Crossbowmen. Considering that Knight, Barbarian and Demon lord are the prime candidates for this, imagine the impact of archangels suddenly having an attack that is something like 65 instead of 40 - maybe even 70+, when the hero cast endurance or something, Paladins having an attack of 55 or so instead of 32... give them moral, and they may easily have two attacks under these conditions to finish the main threats of their opponent.
Of course, after that they are a bit exhausted, so a bit of care is necessary when to activate the ability.
In short, I'd say it's pretty powerful.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 01, 2010 03:56 PM |
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I would rate it 5/20 only because it is imba when you play wyngaal.
yeah, I know, it is because wyngaal is imba, but you had to think about it 
no, but seriously, it would be too powerful for most faction I think. cast it 1st turn, and crush the ennemy. maybe it wouldn't be that bad with necropolis, fortress (they have rune of charge anyway, they can hardly be more imba) and academy
the other perk isn't so exciting but fine, it seems pretty good. kragh would love it
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 01, 2010 06:58 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 18:59, 01 May 2010.
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Death Company
Your army is renown for the shortlivedness of it's members and laughing the Grim Reaper in the face on more than one occasion. The brutal challenges of your command make sure that only the toughest and most suicidal make it. As a result your army has no regrets and the higher the challenge the higher their spirits.
Your units will gain morale equal to the difference between your highest tier unit and the highest tier unit you're facing.
Herculean Strength
Req:Battle Frenzy (a combat perk would have been cooler but then again there's nothing official)
"They say that fighting a stronger opponent is foolish... obviously they've never felt the thrill of life or death combat against overwhelming odds."
- Lt. Gerek last words before he met his unfortunate demise at the hands of a Black Dragon nest, but not before taking the largest part of them with him.
When the effect of the Heroes attack is calculated his level will be considered +the tier level he attacks divided by 2 (rounded up) higher than his actual level.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 02:21 PM |
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Round 28 Ratings
Vokial BG:
Glorious Assault
That's a rather solid perk; Necro or not, Moral yes or no, an initiative plus is a very valuable thing, and speed does save lifes. It's nothing extremely original, but - solid.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 6
BALANCE/REALISM: 9
Last Duty of the Soldier
Nice name. However, NO PREREQUISITES named! Full credit for creativity here, and for once the exploitation potential is reasonable, since you have to lose high level stacks to get amazing effects. It's unclear, though, whether HIT POINTS of killed stack will be transferred, too, or just attack and defense - I mean, if your Imps suddenly have 65 HPs, after your devil was killed, that would be something, wouldn't it? Also, what about Resurrect/Raise effects?
So I'm a bit at odds here with the realism/balance stuff: no prerequisites and lots of holes in the supposed mechanics.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 10
BALANCE/REALISM: 2
Fauch
Goliath Slayers
Not too original, but not that much of a copycat either. All in all I tend to like this perk, since it fits very much into the theme.
The problem is the balance, though. The perk just doesn't have a lot of effect:
1) only your level 1 unit profits
2) They must hit a level 6 or 7 unit at that
3) Even then it triggers only 50% of the time
4) level 1 units just don't do damage against level 6 and 7s: With a general attack/defence difference of 30 against level 7 units damage is multiplied with 0.4. That means, 200 Familiars of a hero WITH Battle Frenzy will do, like 240-320 damage (excluding attacl/defense skills and spells. Doubling that damage will kill 2 instead of 1 Archangels - if it triggers at all.
So the bottom line here is that I like the basic idea, but I think the perl is very underpowered
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 8
BALANCE/REALISM: 4
Martyr
That's an interesting perk. I agree with the prereq in combination with the naming. There is the disadvantage that this perk won't be available for everyone, but of course there could be a perk like "scapegoat" or "dupe" or something for the Dark factions, so the disadvantage is no disadvantage. Since this is another example for a creature ability taken for general use, originality score can't be 10, especially, since the mechanics of TAUNT mean, that its triggering is all the more likely the HIGHER the HP advantage of the Taunter, which is exactly the opposite of how it should be in Heroism. At least, that's what I think.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 7
BALANCE/REALISM: 6
Jirki9
Valor
Another Moral effect, that is, while in keeping with the theme, limited in use (it guards against the effect of "fearsome rage" as well, implicitely).
I think that for a basic perk the effect is too special.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 9
BALANCE/REALISM: 4
Desperate Courage
The basic idea is similar to Vokial's, however, the Power Rating > 1000 limit doesn't do much - most level 5 units have a power rating over 1000, so if you try your luck with all your dragons and a couple single unicorns (or something like that for the other races), you will make your Emeralds or Crystals act 4 times a round and do considerably more damage, after you lost the Unicorns.
So this is obviously quite a bit overpowered
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 8
BALANCE/REALISM: 2
Blizzardboy
Wanderlust
Solid effect with original theme. Of course it would fit better into the Leadership or even Logistics skill. Or don't you think? (Deduction in Realism)
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 8
BALANCE/REALISM: 7
Cosmopolitan
The maximum negative moral modifier for a stack is -4, so this makes the perk very useful, if you want to give your hero the cream of 3 or more different factions. Since it's an advanced perk, you don't HAVE to pick it, if you doesn't need it, but the effect is quite useful, WHEN you need it. Of course the perk makes much more sense as a LEADERSHIP perk, so I have to deduct from Realism again.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 9
BALANCE/REALISM: 7
Azagal
Death Company
Funny perk. "Only the most suicidal make it"... Yeah, right, but how LONG? Anyway, the basic idea behind this perk is good, but in my opinion the "level difference" could have been translated into something else than moral on one hand; on the other hand, the effect could have been computed separately for each stack, either generally or at the moment of attack.
As it is, I'm a bit unhappy with the perk, because it gets all the more useless, the better creatures you integrate into your army, which makes it effective only while creeping (especially for factions like Academy, who can attack everything with level 1 and 2 creatures or Dungeon with their Stalkers.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 8
BALANCE/REALISM: 5
Herculean Strength
That one is severely underpowered. A simple example: If a level 16 hero attacks a lvl 6 stack, he'll do 1.1 x HP damage, that is: 110 points of damage against Paladins. 3 level more against them will let him do 128 damage. That's not much of a gain there, isn't it?
Moreover the perk fits more into the Combat skill (and ccould have been a Cpmbat skill as prerequisite; you missed that chance)
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 6
BALANCE/REALISM: 0
Round 29
You shall create two perks for the Magic Talent skill. One perk must be a basic perk (i.e. inner circle, no other perks required), the other must be an advanced perk (i.e. second or third circle, requires other perks within this skill and possibly outside).
Magic Talent
All Damage dealing spells receive a bonus.
Basic : +10% damage
Advanced : +20% damage
Expert : +30% damage
Deadline is Saturday, May 8th.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 07:15 PM |
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Quote:
Fauch
Goliath Slayers
Not too original, but not that much of a copycat either. All in all I tend to like this perk, since it fits very much into the theme.
The problem is the balance, though. The perk just doesn't have a lot of effect:
1) only your level 1 unit profits
2) They must hit a level 6 or 7 unit at that
3) Even then it triggers only 50% of the time
4) level 1 units just don't do damage against level 6 and 7s: With a general attack/defence difference of 30 against level 7 units damage is multiplied with 0.4. That means, 200 Familiars of a hero WITH Battle Frenzy will do, like 240-320 damage (excluding attacl/defense skills and spells. Doubling that damage will kill 2 instead of 1 Archangels - if it triggers at all.
So the bottom line here is that I like the basic idea, but I think the perl is very underpowered
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 8
BALANCE/REALISM: 4
I thought of affecting level 2 units too, but with units like crossbowmen and centaurs, it might have been a bit powerful. and it's not necessarily weak, use heroes specialized in level 1. or raise a massive army of skeletons. I mostly played duel mode, and heroes focusing on low level creatures were usually quite strong. taking into account bonuses like +1 damage and +2 HPs.
Quote:
Blizzardboy
Wanderlust
Solid effect with original theme. Of course it would fit better into the Leadership or even Logistics skill. Or don't you think? (Deduction in Realism)
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 8
BALANCE/REALISM: 7
from what I understood, it is like a basic +1 attack and defense bonus. it seemed very bland to me. I guess the only thing is it doesn't work at sea.
Quote:
Azagal
Herculean Strength
That one is severely underpowered. A simple example: If a level 16 hero attacks a lvl 6 stack, he'll do 1.1 x HP damage, that is: 110 points of damage against Paladins. 3 level more against them will let him do 128 damage. That's not much of a gain there, isn't it?
Moreover the perk fits more into the Combat skill (and ccould have been a Cpmbat skill as prerequisite; you missed that chance)
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 6
BALANCE/REALISM: 0
I didn't understand azagal's formula
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 02, 2010 07:22 PM |
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Quote:
(a combat perk would have been cooler but then again there's nothing official)
Way ahead of you JJ.
Well it's not that complicated Fauch. The higher your hero level the stronger your attack therefore: you attack a Tier 7 unit you get 7:2=3,5 rounded up =4. Now if you're level 21 and you attack a tier 7 unit you'll do the same damage as a level 25 hero. It is pretty underpowered but I didn't find a scale that showed the damage increase of hero attacks so I opted to make it less powerful than potentially imba.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 02, 2010 07:34 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 22:44, 02 May 2010.
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...dark talent should not be judged. The perks to judge are split spell and Dark Influence.
Split Spell:
Damage Spells cast by the hero targeting one enemy stack can be split, then costing double mana, but you can choose two targets instead of one. The spell deals 75+"Magic Talent Skill bonus"% of their NORMAL damage to EACH creature. (so they deal 85/95/105% of their normal damage, depending on your actual skill level)
Dark Talent:
Requires: Dark Magic;
Decreases the mana cost for dark magic spells by 20%
Dark influence:
Requires: Dark Talent, Advanced Dark Magic, Master of Curses, Master of Pain;
The Hero can cast Influenced damaging spells, which gain the effect that a special Dark Magic spell is cast on every unit hit by the spell, with the hero's dark magic mastery and any other modifications used for the Dark Magic spell. Influenced spells cost +50% mana. Here a list of the dark magic spells and with which spells each is cast.
Weakness: Eldritch Arrow, Word of Light;
Slow: Stone Spikes, Wasp Swarm;
Sorrow: Armageddon, Circle of Winter, Curse of the Netherworld;
Vulnerability: Fireball, Fist of Wrath;
Decay: Ice Bolt;
Confusion: Chain Lightning;
Suffering: Deep Freeze, Meteor Shower;
Frenzy: Implosion;
Blindness: Divine Vengeance, Lightning Bolt;
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 07:44 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 16:58, 07 May 2010.
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actually it's what I understood. did JJ understood something else?
Perks for magic talent :
Basic :
Master of elements :
multiply elemental immunities and resistances of enemies creatures by 75% / 50% /25% depending of your mastery of magic talent
(if they have immunity and you have advanced magic talent, they will receive 50% damage, if they have 50% resistance they will receive 75% damage)
works against creatures abilities (immunity to fire, ice, lightning, earth, fire proof 50%)
against artifacts granting protections or immunity against elements
against perks such as resistance to fire
the creature will become vulnerable against master of fire / ice / lightning effect, except if your opponent has the perk "resistance to fire"
Advanced :
Solmyr's apprentice :
Requires master of storm
The hero learns chain lightning. He can choose the 4 targets of the spell and in which order they get struck. They will all get stunned thanks to master of storm.
Quote:
Sorrow: Armageddon, Circle of Winter, Curse of the Netherworld;
Vulnerability: Fireball
Ouch, mass sorrow wouldn't be bad at all.
the problem with vulnerability is it is cumulative and can't be dispelled.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 07:46 PM |
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@ Azagal
You could just have taken one that fits. What on Earth would have been wrong with that?
The Fan Manual includes the formula and there is NO way to create a decent perk by giving the hero a few more levels to increase the hero's damage.
@ Fauch
It's bad style to start critisizing the ratings of other contenders claiming they are too good.
Of course the damage +1 perk is good for low level creatures - however it works for ALL creatures and for all attacks.
If you consider the example I gave, the Familiars will do 160-240 damage instead of 240-320. This is a 33-50% gain for level 1 units against level 7 units - and all other units as well!
your perk will give double damage half of the time against 2 out of 7 levels (and HIGH levels mean, you won't fight that often against them in a regular game right?). It will do nothing for the other units of your army.
You should be able to see that the perk is underpowered.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 08:01 PM |
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rather quite specific. just make sure you have an army of level 1 with you. you will meet levels 6 and 7 units sooner or later.
actually, did the choice of azagal, not too powerful instead of imba. but then if you meet Havez with a legion of saboteurs, battle frenzy, expert luck, archery, mini artifact level 3, the Necklace of the Bloody Claw and my perk, your level 6/7 units may feel the pain.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted May 02, 2010 09:36 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 19:18, 05 May 2010.
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Quote:
Last Duty of the Soldier
Nice name. However, NO PREREQUISITES named! Full credit for creativity here, and for once the exploitation potential is reasonable, since you have to lose high level stacks to get amazing effects. It's unclear, though, whether HIT POINTS of killed stack will be transferred, too, or just attack and defense - I mean, if your Imps suddenly have 65 HPs, after your devil was killed, that would be something, wouldn't it? Also, what about Resurrect/Raise effects?
So I'm a bit at odds here with the realism/balance stuff: no prerequisites and lots of holes in the supposed mechanics.
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY: 10
BALANCE/REALISM: 2
Requires were forgoten, sorry  HP are transferred, Resurrect/Raise are going to clean the effect (the dead unit will no longer be dead).
For the current round:
Basic: Mana dust
Grand the adventure ability to the hero to create mana dust - very concentrated product made of mana. Using the ability consume all the current hero mana and turn it into mana dust (formula: mana consumed/2 for might heroes and /4 for magic heroes) - very durable source of magic. The mana dust can be kept and used as reserve in combat, when the normal mana is over (example: you have 40 mana as necromancer, you dust them to 10 mana dust, you recover your 40 mana after time, go in combat, use your 40 there and after that you can use your 10 mana dust the same way, so basicly you have 40 + 10 mana in this case). Holding the mana dust also consume one of your inventory slots (one of the... were they pockets? I mean where the four-leaved clover go). You can't hold more than 1/3 of your normal mana quantity.
Advanced: Destructor's secret
Requires: Master of fire, Secrets of destruction, Mana dust
The mana dust now count as 1,5 mana points for destructive spells only. But, in addition holding them grand you a bonus, for every dust point you get 0,2 spellpower for your destructive spells (So having 10 mana dust mean 15 points for destructive spells and + 2 destructive spellpower, but consuming the dust will consume your spellpower bonus, you can still count on it untill you are over with the normal mana you have).
____________
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 10:24 PM |
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Quote:
Requires were forgoten, sorry HP are transferred, Resurrect/Raise are going to clean the effect (the dead unit will no longer be dead).
If HPs are transferred, that would indeed mean that if you lost a single level 7 unit it might randomly happen that your 800 Skeletons suddenly have 60 HPs each. That might be a tad too good, right? I mean, Zombies or Spectres with 75 HPs wouldn't be that great either, dor that matter, or Vampires with nigh on 100.
And what I meant with Raise and Resurrect isn't about what happens with the DEAD stack, but when a POSESSED stack (that has higher HP) is raised/resurrected or had already been raised/resurrected.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 02, 2010 10:32 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 22:52, 02 May 2010.
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Quote:
@ Azagal
You could just have taken one that fits. What on Earth would have been wrong with that?
The Fan Manual includes the formula and there is NO way to create a decent perk by giving the hero a few more levels to increase the hero's damage.
Well whether you "take one that fits" is a matter of preference really, don't you think? It's not a real perk (no matter how cool it would be as a perk ) so I opted to go with what I know I have. And seeing what kind of judge you are I feel safer sticking to "real" things. Apparently I'm both right and wrong about that though.
And thanks for the info I checked out the damage formula and it's embarresing what kind of MEASELY damage they deal oO. Well Kragh is a powerhouse so I'm pretty sure one can give heros a decent buff if you work with percentages. There's always next time .
EDIT:
Oh and about Death Company you're quite right it doesn't reward putting high tier unit in your army and it's mostly for creeping but then again "Heroism" doesn't reward you for that in the first place atleast imo since you don't usually run arround with your heavy hitters when you aim to be the weaker army.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 02, 2010 10:47 PM |
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I have been away on holiday, but I'm home now. Hope to follow up on this soon.
____________
What will happen now?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 02, 2010 10:56 PM |
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The 3 basic perks for Magic Talent would all affect a different creature type.
Pulse
Prerequisites: Basic Magic Talent
Factions: Haven, Academy, Sylvan, Fortress, Dungeon, Inferno, Necropolis
The hero's magical attacks are accompanied by an aftershock of suppressive force. Flyers hit by any direct damage spell from the hero lose the flying ability and suffer -1 speed for 1 turn. This effect is separate from the spell itself and triggers even if a creature resists or is immune to the spell.
Stormguard
Prerequisites: Advanced Magic Talent, Pulse, Basic Destructive Magic, Master of Storms
Factions: Haven, Academy, Sylvan, Fortress, Dungeon, Inferno
Under the hero's guidance, the muscle of the army may ride the storm into battle. Melee non-flying creatures in your army receive the flying ability. [A thundercloud, similar in appearance to the Storm Giant ability, would appear at the base of the creature as it moves on the battlefield]
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 02, 2010 10:59 PM |
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Ok, two perks for the Heroism skill:
LEARN FROM MISTAKES
The Hero gains experience for lost units of his or her own army. This includes summoned and gated units! Lost regular units gain the XP of the units multiplied with (% of skill level/10). That means, a lost unit's XP value is multiplied with either 4, 7, or 10.
Summoed and gated units bring in the regular XP only (without the multiplicator).
FAME ATTRACTS
Prerequisites: Learn From Mistakes, Basic Leadership, Recruitment
Factions allowed: All except Dungeon, and Necropolis
The Fame of the hero attracts fighters! After every battle the hero did being inferior in power rating (fights that grant the xp bonus) the hero wins +1 moral for the current and the next day (cumulative). Moreover, units are joining the player's army for half the usual hiring rate after such a battle, depending on the Heroism level:
Basic: ONE level 1 unit
Advanced: ONE level 2 OR TWO level 1
Expert: ONE level 3 OR TWO lvl 2 OR FOUR level 1
Units always join the best (meaning upgraded) existing STACK. If both upgrades are in the army, units are picked randomly.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 02, 2010 11:34 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:55, 07 May 2010.
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Now to the matter at hand...
Child of the Ether
Preq: Arcane Brilliance
In these times of war many seek to bend the arcane to their will and unleash the fury of the elementals unto their enemies. Drunk with power many overexert themselves and wither under the intense cost of wielding such horrifying powers... all but a few with a unique affinity for the Arcane find a way to unleash hell on earth or deliver pin point attacks when neccesary they can chose to reduce the damage of their spell in exchange for reducing its strain on their mind. The reduced mana cost is equal to the damage reduction (say you choose to cast Fireball but only at 50% of it's strength it'll only cast 50% the original mana). The hero can't reduce a damaging spell beyond 90% of it's effectiveness. The perk benefits from Erratic mana (Erratic Mana will reduce the mana cost after it has been reduced by "Child of the Ether").
"I always wanted to be able to make an example of my unsatisfying suitors without blowing up my bed and the satisfying ones." - Matriarch Yrwanna
A perk for when you're short on mana, simply want a mastery effect to kick in or don't want to go overkill on a stack.
EDIT: Here's the second perk from the other page
Soul Drinker
The service of your troops does not with Death even when they die the last of their life force serves to fuele the fires of destruction the hero unleashes.
Depending on the Heroes mastery he'll be able to draw more power from the fallen. The power of damaging spells is increased proportionate to the overall armystrength you lose. For every percentage of your armies health (all units health added up)lost you're heros spelldamage will increase. For 10% overall health loss you're damage will increase by 1%/2%/3 percent depending on your mastery level. In the calculations your units combined starting hp = 100%. Everything you lose from there will increase the damage.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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This thread is pages long: 
