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| Thread: What if... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 15, 2008 09:38 AM |
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This is rather why I suggested splitting the Vampires off, Vampires are only ever going to belong on dirt or underground, whereas the raised undead can go practically anywhere.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2008 09:42 AM |
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Still, Vampires as a faction? Ok I have to say that one the bright side, we could easily make a racial ability that allows them to transform enemy creatures into Vampires through bite attacks. However, I must admit I have trouble seeing a really credible line-up which will not just end up being 5 Vampire units of different strength - but of course, I never really delved into Vampire mythology.
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What will happen now?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 15, 2008 10:23 AM |
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Alc.
I'll make you a bet.
I'll create a vampire faction (not now, since I don't have time, but soon). If you don't like it, or find some large holes in credibility of any kind, you can give me a -QP. If you like it, you'll admit you were wrong and I'll gain the privilege of winning a bet against Alc. 
How about it?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 15, 2008 10:23 AM |
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Well of course they don't all have to be Vampires, I mean you could have a Vampire Dragon, a bat swarm, one or two slave/controlled units (Vampires are noted for being hypnotising), and some half-breeds (Ghouls, Banshees, etc.), and that's without the vampires proper.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2008 10:35 AM |
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Quote:
Alc.
I'll make you a bet.
I'll create a vampire faction (not now, since I don't have time, but soon). If you don't like it, or find some large holes in credibility of any kind, you can give me a -QP. If you like it, you'll admit you were wrong and I'll gain the privilege of winning a bet against Alc.
How about it?
That would be kind of unfair, since I can always claim to not like it, and you could not dispute it, but I will challenge you to make a Vampire faction, and I'm positive I can find some rational fault with it - otherwise, you've won your bet. 
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What will happen now?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 15, 2008 12:30 PM |
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It's on! 
I'll get right to it when I find the time. 
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted December 15, 2008 12:36 PM |
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As I see it they are two different types of undead anyway.
1. The Raised (Skeletons, Walking Dead, Mummies,...)
2. Undead Races (Vampires, Werewolves, Ghouls,...)
Wasn't it always a bit kinda weird to mix them into one faction?
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Asheron
Famous Hero
Ancient
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posted December 15, 2008 01:16 PM |
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Quote:
As I see it they are two different types of undead anyway.
1. The Raised (Skeletons, Walking Dead, Mummies,...)
2. Undead Races (Vampires, Werewolves, Ghouls,...)
Wasn't it always a bit kinda weird to mix them into one faction?
Wait,wait,wait...Since when are WEREWOLVES undead? Did I miss something? 
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted December 15, 2008 02:05 PM |
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Okay, werewolves are more cursed than undead. But ghouls aren't undead either. They are arabian desert demons but no one cares. 
It's the thing of the setting if they are considered undead or not but they often form a pair with vampires (e.g. Underworld with Kate Beckinsale) so I mentioned them there. Maybe I should have said CURSED RACES instead of UNDEAD RACES.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 15, 2008 02:39 PM |
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Ghouls are undead in D&D, but I don't know of any setting where Werewolves are undead... they are just cursed creatures (and yes, a lot of times they are enemies with the vampires for some reason )
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2008 03:02 PM |
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If we really want to go into this discussion, there are so many points we can address. For instance:
- Are undead sentient creatures? In Heroes, all undead are immune to Mind Affecting spells, which would imply that they are in fact mindless creatures, but on the other hand, we have undead Heroes - a mindless creature with the Intelligence skill seems to offer somewhat of a paradox.
In traditional fantasy, this depends on the undead speciae - for instance, Skeletons are traditionally mindless creatures, Zombies are mindless or at least without a personal will (see next paragraph), whereas Ghosts and particularly Vampires and Liches are highly sentient creatures.
- Do undead creatures have a will of their own? This may or may not be interpreted as the same question as above. As I see it, a creature can have a mind (which makes it able to act on its own) but no will (which means it has no motive and no fealings). Heroes Undead are unaffected by morale, which would imply that they don't have a will.
- Has the creature entered the Undead state willingly? In Heroes, we don't really get an answer to this question - but we must assume that they are raised more or less unwillingly. Again, traditional fantasy holds Liches to be Mages who willingly and on purpose enter the undead state, whereas Zombies and Skeletons are raised from their corpses by another being. Ghosts hold a somewhat special place here, as does Vampires.
- Has the creature been Raised by a Necromancer or generated by other means? - closely related to the above question, but not necesarily congruent.
... and last but not least ...
- Are undead creatures evil? And a Necromancers?
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What will happen now?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted December 15, 2008 03:14 PM |
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All of those questions depend on which universe you're talking about. The undead and their levels of sentience in Ashan and the old universe differ.
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King_Nikolai
Known Hero
with plans of Rebirth!
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posted December 15, 2008 03:27 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
If there are to be a new Necro Faction of asian corpses or what they was called
Asian?
Egypt?
Fail?
..Yes..It would seem I made somewhat of a misstake there.
*Feeling stupid* 
Still I think it would be better to improve the current Necropolis than to amke another. The gothic theme of the town and it all together makes very good sense to me.
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Once again he roams the
forums!
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 15, 2008 03:38 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 15:39, 15 Dec 2008.
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As I see this, the Necros are immune to Mind control spells because they don't have a mind or will in the normal sense of the word, they are using Dark Necromantic Powers. The Zombies and Skeletons are simply animated using Necromancy, while the Vampire and Lich use the dark powers on themselves directly, giving them the power to think how they like while still having no mind/will. I know, it doesn't make much sense
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 15, 2008 04:42 PM |
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Quote:
It's on!
I'll get right to it when I find the time.
OMG OMG OMG OMG!!
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted December 15, 2008 04:43 PM |
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Yes,but I never understand why Necros are immune to Mind control,because they don't have mind?
About this,why they are doing all the things (attack,cast spells-Liches...).Because Asha is controlling them or what?
Now on-topic I have only one sentence to say:
I new Necro faction should't be created,but the present one should be edited
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 15, 2008 08:53 PM |
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Quote:
Wait,wait,wait...Since when are WEREWOLVES undead? Did I miss something?
You missed your classes in Slavic mythology
Werewolves are just as undead as vampires, actually by our lore they're the same - cursed, undying souls which either died a violent death or were evil during their lifetimes. It's just that werewolves take the form of wolves, and vampires the form of humans.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 15, 2008 08:55 PM |
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Werewolfs are not undead in general knowledge/popular culture.
Thus, they should be living creatures in HoMM too.
Werewolfs should be in Stronghold as a Hellhound/Human hybrid.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 15, 2008 09:18 PM |
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Quote:
Werewolfs should be in Stronghold as a Hellhound/Human hybrid.
Yeah, cause that would be totally according to general knowledge/popular culture.
Although I must say, I like the idea.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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King_Nikolai
Known Hero
with plans of Rebirth!
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posted December 15, 2008 09:21 PM |
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Werewolves may not be undead themself, but they still have strong ties with undeath since they have eternal lifes and just like vampire spreads their curse by biting other living beings.
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Once again he roams the
forums!
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