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| Thread: Conflux return |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2008 09:06 PM |
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Well yes, Fire Dragons are Elemental creatures as well, as are the Phoenii, but that doesn't mean Fire is a stronger element than the others, just because there are two fire-creatures at level 7. You still have to compare them on equal basis, i.e. the four "normal" elementals.
Btw. Djinn is not really an Elemental creature, it neither has the Elemental ability nor a related element.
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What will happen now?
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted December 16, 2008 01:44 AM |
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Quote:
I simply don't understand why Death Knights are in the Conflux (like in Broadstrong's idea)
My lineup has the basic air, earth, fire and water elementals (and also the dreaded magic elemental), plus the "life elemental" (pegasus) and the "death elemental" (death knight). These two creatures will have added protection against dark magic and life magic respectively.
I know there has been many, many calls for death knights to be included back into necropolis faction...because of H3, where death knights/dread knights are the best lvl 6 creatures then? Ok, if so, what can I suggest for a "death elemental"? Venom Spawn? Death Dealer? Any other fitting death creature?
Also, I don't think that djinns are elementals either. Just because they can use casting magic as their special move doesn't make them an elemental (if so, then a lot of H5 creatures can be elementals as well).
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I don't get the idea of some elements being stronger than the others. Why would Earth Elemental be of a higher tier than Air Elemental? Or Fire higher than Water? 
As for the different levels of the elementals, it is because there are different tiers, so inevitably the four elementals would need to go into different tiers, and I chose air elemental because it seems more fitted for the lowest tier. Of course, pure personal opinion. , and it seems this idea does not go well with the community at all.
With so many different ideas for conflux creature lineup, it only shows that this faction can be very dynamic indeed in its choice for creature line-up.
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The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 02:27 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 03:06, 16 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
My lineup has the basic air, earth, fire and water elementals (and also the dreaded magic elemental), plus the "life elemental" (pegasus) and the "death elemental" (death knight). These two creatures will have added protection against dark magic and life magic respectively.
Magic Elemental is uninspired (magic isn't an element, even here), Pegasus belongs with Sylvan, and death knight belongs with Necropolis.
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I know there has been many, many calls for death knights to be included back into necropolis faction...because of H3, where death knights/dread knights are the best lvl 6 creatures then? Ok, if so, what can I suggest for a "death elemental"? Venom Spawn? Death Dealer? Any other fitting death creature?
Try to come up with something more interesting than 'Death Elemental' and 'Life Elemental', especially since those two aren't elements.
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Also, I don't think that djinns are elementals either. Just because they can use casting magic as their special move doesn't make them an elemental (if so, then a lot of H5 creatures can be elementals as well).
Intelligent.
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As for the different levels of the elementals, it is because there are different tiers, so inevitably the four elementals would need to go into different tiers, and I chose air elemental because it seems more fitted for the lowest tier. Of course, pure personal opinion., and it seems this idea does not go well with the community at all.
No it doesn't, because elementals all ought to be equal, which is why I suggested having a standard lineup, with a choice of two elements per town, each element proving its own upgrade.
Now I must admit that coming up with an actual imaginative lineup will be difficult, but probably no more sousing my method than the traditional (H3 Conflux) one.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 10:24 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 10:48, 16 Dec 2008.
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In my Conlux idea (which I may use for the ICTC) the Twilight Elementals looks kind of like Dark Archons:
DARK ELEMENTAL
LIGHT ELEMENTAL
TWILIGHT ELEMENTAL
I have a very cool drawing of a Psychic Elementals which I may post.
edit: Made them in photoshop instead, to show how I think light, dark and twilights should look like.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 10:34 AM |
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woah, it's how Mr. Dark looks without his cloak and his hat 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 10:49 AM |
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Twilight Elemental, Psychic elemental, why does almost everyone seem obsessed with the idea than an Elementals beyond the original four are viable, and that Elementals have to be recruitable (thus having to split them into levels).
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 16, 2008 10:53 AM |
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Why would Earth Elemental be of a higher tier than Air Elemental? Or Fire higher than Water?
Don't know.
Why would a human on a horse be three levels higher and have more HP than a fully armored dwarf on a fully armored bear?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 10:59 AM |
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Its game mechanics -.-
So people want (if there came to be a Conflux) a town like this:
tier 1. Fire Elemental, Earth Elemental, Air Elemental, Water Elemental, Phoenix, Psyhcic
Is that how you want it?
Because all elementals are equal!!! 
I based my elementals on Ashans history.
There are six elemental dragons, so I assume that Dark and Light are elements in Ashan.
There is a hero description that Time is an element in Ashan too. I dont know how it is about magic though, but that something as common as magic in Ashan should be an element seems very likely to me plus I had to have something to make the Psychic Elemental (magic + time).
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 11:12 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:15, 16 Dec 2008.
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Actually I want it more like:
Town specialises in two elements (fire/water, and air/earth)
Tier 1 Base - Element 1 upgrade/Element 2 upgrade
Tier 2 Base - Element 1 upgrade/Element 2 upgrade
Tier 3 Base - Element 1 upgrade/Element 2 upgrade
etc.
This allows all elementals to be equal since none of them are actually recruitable (normally in any case, though I think at least one stack should be recruited free-or-charge mana-wise in each defence, depending on the level of the Mage Guild).
Yes, this leads to having to create a totally new lineup (you actually need decent base creatures now), but I'm sure someone can do it.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 12:52 PM |
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I dont find it likely that Ubisoft would modify an entire line-up for one town.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 16, 2008 07:28 PM |
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Quote:
Its game mechanics -.-
So people want (if there came to be a Conflux) a town like this:
tier 1. Fire Elemental, Earth Elemental, Air Elemental, Water Elemental, Phoenix, Psyhcic
Is that how you want it?
Because all elementals are equal!!!
No, like I said, read my suggestion here.
But to cut it short, what I want is something along the line of:
Level 1 = Minor Elementals (Air / Water / Fire / Earth manifestations)
2 = " upgrades (Sand / Clay / Steam / Storm / Plasma / Magma manifestations)
Level 3 = Standard Elementals (Air / Water / Fire / Earth elementals)
4 = " upgrades (Sand / Clay / Steam / Storm / Plasma / Magma elementals)
Level 5 = Major Elementals (Air / Water / Fire / Earth spirits)
6 = " upgrades (Sand / Clay / Steam / Storm / Plasma / Magma spirits)
Level 7 = Firebird - Thunderbird / Phoenix
So basically, apart from level 7, you have all elements represented equally.
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What will happen now?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 08:00 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:03, 16 Dec 2008.
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I dont find it likely that Ubisoft would modify an entire line-up for one town.
Well since this is all conjecture, I fail to see you point.
Also alc, I have to say no to this concept, basically for the sam,e reason as TitaniumAlloy did, the creature line-up simply doesn't fit (one day I'll come up with my own lineup).
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2008 04:53 PM |
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Bah, I dont agree with complex creature line-ups and you just made up that elements are equal - which they are not.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 17, 2008 04:56 PM |
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They are. In Heroes 5 all of them are tier 4 upgraded and have the same growth.
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted December 17, 2008 04:56 PM |
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you just made up that elements are equal - which they are not.
Which is the strongest then? Which is the weakest?
I agree with Alc, the elements themselves are equal, but they can appear in different shapes with different strengths...
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Need moar avatars!
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 17, 2008 04:58 PM |
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Bah, I dont agree with complex creature line-ups and you just made up that elements are equal - which they are not.
So you can say one element is better than the other?
I strongly disagree and am more fond of alcis idea here...allthough I do not get the point why there are allways two "earth"-units but no "Air"-units?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 17, 2008 07:49 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 19:50, 17 Dec 2008.
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Rather why I suggested having a near-standard baseline, and two 'elements' upgrades per level. Each upgrade would generally focus on one major area:
Air - Speed
Earth - Defence
Fire - Attack
Water - Magic/special abilities
Of course, these are only general, but I hope it gives you an idea of what I'm on about.
Of course, you could never have more than two upgrades at a time, but there's no problems there, since I dislike the idea of having a town that includes two opposing elements in any case (water and fire for example), so you chose two elements to begin with (water/fire and earth/air), and take it from there.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 17, 2008 08:53 PM |
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Quote:
I strongly disagree and am more fond of alcis idea here...allthough I do not get the point why there are allways two "earth"-units but no "Air"-units?
Obviously a result of the deadly typo + copy/paste combo.  Fixed.
Quote:
Rather why I suggested having a near-standard baseline, and two 'elements' upgrades per level. Each upgrade would generally focus on one major area:
Air - Speed
Earth - Defence
Fire - Attack
Water - Magic/special abilities
Of course, these are only general, but I hope it gives you an idea of what I'm on about.
Of course, you could never have more than two upgrades at a time, but there's no problems there, since I dislike the idea of having a town that includes two opposing elements in any case (water and fire for example), so you chose two elements to begin with (water/fire and earth/air), and take it from there.
I think it should be taken into consideration that the concept Daystar and I made dates back pre-TOTE i.e. pre alternative upgrades. Obviously, come TOTE, it would be much more viable to have something like quadroble upgrades for each (elemental) level, so I would deffinitely go along the line of what MattII suggests here and suggest something like a basic "elemental" tied to no Element (or Aether - wasn't that the 5th element of the Greeks, representing nothingness?) and then have it upgrade into either Air / Water / Fire / Earth.
One could possibly make a constraint that you can only have one of each element at once, or rather, you choose two possible from the list, so that you have to alternative upgrades like in all other towns, but that each element can only occur twice, so that if you choose Fire and Water at level 2 and Earth and Water at level 3, you can't choose Water at level 4 or 5 (imagening we have elemental creatures at levels 2-5 as in Heroes 3).
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2008 11:04 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:06, 17 Dec 2008.
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Phoenix = Tier 7
Magma = Tier 7
Djinn (I dont care if its abilities are not elemental, read the description) = Tier 5
I dont understand you.
When you create a faction, you want to create something that is likely atleast.
That a conflux town with a weird system and line-up like this would come seems very unlikely for Ubisoft to do.
Obviously, Conflux would have a line-up like everybody else.
And werent all Elements same tier pre-armegddons blade too?
Why cant they change this?
Still, the Earth Elemental in HoMM5 is much weaker then the Water Elemental in terms of abilities etc.
Tiers doesnt mean anything.
And again, ELEMENTAL CHAINS!
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 19, 2008 12:24 PM |
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Quote:
Phoenix = Tier 7
Magma = Tier 7
Djinn (I dont care if its abilities are not elemental, read the description) = Tier 5
When you compare things, you need to compare comparable sizes. You can't compare Phoenix (level 8) to Magma Dragon (level 7) and Djinn (level 5) and say Fire is stronger than Air - we could make a level 9 Air creature, and then what? Btw. like I said - Djinn is not even an elemental creature.
The Elementals are good examples of comparable sizes, because they represent the same thing for each element, and they are all level 4.
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I dont understand you.
When you create a faction, you want to create something that is likely atleast.
That a conflux town with a weird system and line-up like this would come seems very unlikely for Ubisoft to do.
Obviously, Conflux would have a line-up like everybody else.
And werent all Elements same tier pre-armegddons blade too?
Why cant they change this?
Still, the Earth Elemental in HoMM5 is much weaker then the Water Elemental in terms of abilities etc.
Tiers doesnt mean anything.
First off, in Heroes 5, each faction is unique. Before HOF, no faction had a unique school of magic available. Before TOTE, all factions had access to spells and no Shatter Magic skills existed. Expansions changed that, that's what make the new factions unique. Conflux could have this as its unique feature.
And yes, AB changed the H3 elemental line-up. Of course we could do the same here. It just seems counterlogical, because why is it that suddenly, Earth Elemental, which clearly sucks - and even did so in AB - is to be of higher level than the others?
Quote:
And again, ELEMENTAL CHAINS!
What has Elemental Chains to do with anything? That's a dungeon feature, and if anything shows that all elements are equal!?
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