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| Thread: mightiest town (w/out magic)? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Moon
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 24, 2002 11:56 AM |
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Quote:
This strange... Fortress, with such killer specials, won so little battles!
Yeah, but it won single fights against best towns. And that with Dragonly Spez not working, slow speed and a comp who is too stupid to go on the L7s with the Mighty-Muhs.
And same again, like I said before. When I arrange the 7 Units in a Different way, they win much more.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted January 24, 2002 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
specially tactics skill is more than usefull for some towns
If you know that your opponent has no spells like fireball, and you aren't fighting inferno, then with tactics, Rampart can simply surround it's elves in a corner and just wait until they shoot everything to death.
Not including magic, really doesn't determine the quality of the town. A mass slow works much better for Tower than other towns, because it has 3 shooters.
Also, it can take 2 nearly weeks sometimes to build Portal of Glory for castle. You have to build EVERYTHING before you can get Angels, including the Capitol, because obviously you wouldn't have the money to recruit them. Stronghold on the other hand is very good because it CAN realistically build EVERY creature structure and the castle by week 1.
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Go Red Sox!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 24, 2002 07:31 PM |
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hmmm...slow isnt just good for slowing down creatures to get to shooters, the ability to have first/last move every turn is more importnant in my opinion.
And it would suprise me if u used that "protect elves" tactics when for example fighting castle, with even army/stats i think u would lose.
Concerning angels first week: I dunno what kind of maps u play but i almost always got angels+castle first week on TOH maps.
/Stefan
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2002 08:26 PM |
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Here is the reason why Grand Elves are superior compared to Castle shooters: Gold Dragons and Silver Pegasi. Castle can`t afford to guard the shooters due to Gold Dragons breath attack. And there is no creature Castle has moving between Gold Dragons and Silver Pegasi and no creatures moving after them except the Arch Angels in the case they waited. Do you think that Castle would have much shooters left after the attack on Zealots with the Dragons and after the attack on Marksmen with the Pegasi? No. Now Castle can attack twice on the Pegasi or the Dragons with the Arch Angels but most propably can't kill them. And now you have the shooter advantage. Of course, AI might attack immediately with fliers and got them killed, but hey, AI can do it with the Arch Angels as well.
There is only two towns against Rampart can't afford to guard the elves (in normal cases), and they are:
Tower (Grand Elves are propably dead after first round) and Necropolis (Death Cloud on two stacks guarding the elves and to the elves doesn't sound good).
If you think that Rampart can't guard against Dungeon and Conflux you are wrong. Just check this death trap.
It can be found on Dungeon vs Rampart thread too.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 24, 2002 10:04 PM |
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Hmmmmm...yeah the drags has the advantage of 2 hexes attack but u can defend against that with griffs/champs and if u put them up correctly with the other units you wont reach the shooters. And then we have spells, mass slow&implo are spells that can take out that rampart attack. If u attack at once when fight begins with drags&pegasi the AA will have two strikes vs the pegasi and prolly kill most of them (I wont do any math here, i leave that for you) and so on.
You are problably right that this will happen in a "regular" fight but then how many fights are regular? there are always spells&morale&luck&tactics that will decide the "character" of the fight. The elves might be hard to kill with creatures, then why dont just cast a dmg spell on them and their 15hp? u can have how many guards as u want for those elves but w/o resistance skill/arts they are dead anyway.
To me its kinda hard to say which creatures that will do the difference when youre not even sure about the circumstances about the fight.
/Stefan
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2002 10:32 PM |
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Maybe I have to clarify myself. I wait with the Pegasi and Dragons. So what if you guard your shooters? That means 2-hex attack for me and a great if not greater tactical advantage. I can always pull my Pegasi and Dragons back on the start of the secound round, and then they are out of reach of your guards and shooters. It doesn't matter if you can kill the pegasi or not with the Arch Angels as Angels can reach the Pegasi in any case (unless Pegasi are guarded).
And your statement of the spells you COULD have doesn't matter as you COULD as well be without them. Castle heroes don't get Implosion from their mageguild.
Slow is easier to get but Knight hero types don't usually get Exp. Earth Magic Easily and Gold Dragons are immune to it. Furthermore, Ranger will usually get resistance easily.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 24, 2002 10:37 PM |
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Yeah and when im playing castle i always only have one town (why bother get another huh? i might have bad luck and get a town that CAN build lvl 5 spells, and i ALWAYS use a native castle hero as main. And i guess u always use a native rampart hero also when playing rampart? i mean whats those guys Hack&Tazar and so on good for anyway when u can have a native hero...WOW
Btw: if u wait with those AA u still get two strikes at drags/pegasi if u attack and if u dont, then why are they so good anyway?
/Stefan
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted January 25, 2002 12:24 AM |
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The maps that I play
I haven't played a TOH game while. I've been making a map with my free time instead, where you start out with no fort and can't collect enough wood and ore for a while, because you lose all of it week 1.
So I've been testing that map repeatedly to make sure their aren't bugs or imbalances with all the different towns. Also, I used to play BFH a lot which has few resources. I never used castle that much anyway. And if I can remember, on other maps I think I do remember getting angels week 1.
Also I like to build another town and have the creatures recruited and on the way to my opponent's town, so I can rush them if I lose one of the big game-ending battles and hope the next week comes really soon. That's when you want kyrre. I love rampart.
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Go Red Sox!
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Fantusta
Known Hero
who wishes he was high
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posted January 25, 2002 02:57 AM |
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I was just wondering, did you happen to save any shots or movies of these battles? Not that I doubt you, but that I'd like to see them myself. (Being very lazy and not exactly understanding the best way to do it)
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You're unique, just like everyone else. I'm just better.
I'm challenging preconcieved notions you haven't even thought up yet!
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Moon
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 25, 2002 01:41 PM |
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Castle vs. Rampart, Castle is attacker normally.
You dont even need to protect Grandelves, also its no fault. Castle cant count on waited AAs to cast, because Rampart can blind(Berserk) them, so Castle gets no Chance to cast at all.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 25, 2002 08:13 PM |
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And maybe castle alrdy has casted anti magic on the Arch Angels, this could go on forever you know...
/Stefan
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted January 25, 2002 09:49 PM |
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Quote:
this could go on forever you know...
No actually it would go on until we've mentioned every spell, creature, and known strategy in the game. That's why people keep talking. It gives people ideas. Discussing this stuff makes people better and more knowledgable about the game. It's perfectly fine to mention every little detail.
Also, you could recruit some Dragon flies to remove the beneficial spell of Anti-Magic and give the AA's weakness. Now this WILL go on forever.
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Go Red Sox!
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Legolust
Adventuring Hero
Aurora Australis
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posted January 26, 2002 12:24 AM |
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i would ban titan master for a week for the aa posts if they dont have anything to do with anti alchihol.
well, conflux and tower are just the best... but usually magic decides a fight for me. because im always magic 
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I don't believe in anything that bleeds and doesn't die...
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted January 26, 2002 03:52 AM |
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Magic Deciding a fight
exactly, expert earth magic gives you mass slow turn mass stone skin, and others. Those two can win a game right there.
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Go Red Sox!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 26, 2002 01:44 PM |
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personally id say that there are a bigger chance that TP/resurrect wins you a game.
And i cant remember the last time i took a magic hero for main, i prefer might because usually they get enough Spell Power/Knowledge to cast the spells they need before they slay their enemies
/Stefan
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted January 29, 2002 02:21 AM |
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lol! What do you know, this thread is still alive!
well I never continued with the other two tests yet, they are:
- un-upgraded battles
- cost efficiency (100k gold of each unit)
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26) 
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 29, 2002 03:16 AM |
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A funny little thread
RedSox, Ive played BfH quite alot, and I always get castle+portal when playing 100 %, and can do it aswell on 130 % np, unless my opponent swamp my trading post.
Ive actually managed to get Titans week 2 on that map, but good ole Amazon_King outwitted me 
Its funny how u can tell us that the best tactic for rampart is to guard ur grandelves, most off the time Ive played rampart or play vs Rampart, gran elves are the first to go .
My point is simply that it all depends on the situation, what spells u have etc. U cant count on having blind, berzerk, ress, in every game.
And actually with castle I would go for water magic anyday Cloned arch angels are one off the nastiest comboes in the game, u can just keep ressurecting ur units
I guess wiggy`s try outs are pretty accurate cept Necro with a few 1000 skellies more prolly would be at the top instead off the bottom off that list
My 2 cents anyways
Defreni
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Moon
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 29, 2002 10:46 AM |
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Like I said, they are FAR away from being Accurate, Skellis or not. The comp has a VERY silly fighting procedure and two troops changing their Starting position can give the fight a Complete different finish.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted January 29, 2002 11:01 AM |
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Quote:
I guess wiggy`s try outs are pretty accurate cept Necro with a few 1000 skellies more prolly would be at the top instead off the bottom off that list
My 2 cents anyways
Defreni
good request ... should I give them 2k instead of 1k, or 2.5k, 3k?
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted January 30, 2002 03:48 AM |
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ok, I've redone the results for Necropolis only, giving them 2500 skeleton warriors instead of the common 600.
3 games per match:
Fortress vs. Stronghold:
F - 0 ________ S - 3
Ancient Behemoths decided these battles
Fortress vs Necropolis:
F - 0 ________ N - 3
fortress had no chance against the undead hordes
Fortress vs. Rampart:
F - 2 ________ R - 1
close matches
Fortress vs. Tower:
F - 0 ________ T - 3
fortress had little to no chance
Fortress vs. Inferno:
F - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno was inferior
Fortress vs. Castle:
F - 1 ________ C - 2
fortress was inferior
Fortress vs. Dungeon:
F - 2 ________ D - 1
close matches
Fortress vs. Conflux:
F - 0 ________ C - 3
fortress didn't have a chance
Necropolis vs. Conflux:
N - 1 ________ C - 2
those skells helped a lot
Necropolis vs. Rampart:
N - 3 ________ R - 0
rampart had little chance
Necropolis vs. Tower:
N - 0 ________ T - 3
necro still had little chance (needed haste / teleport)
Necropolis vs. Castle:
N - 2 ________ C - 1
close matches
Necropolis vs. Inferno:
N - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno had no chance
Necropolis vs. Stronghold:
N - 2 ________ S - 1
close matches
Necropolis vs. Dungeon:
N - 2 ________ D - 1
skells still rule
Conflux vs. Dungeon:
C - 3 ________ D - 0
dungeon was inferior
Conflux vs. Rampart:
C - 3 ________ R - 0
rampart had little chance
Conflux vs. Castle:
Con. - 3 _____ Cast. - 0
close matches
Conflux vs. Inferno:
C - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno had no chance
Conflux vs. Stronghold:
C - 2 ________ S - 1
close matches
Conflux vs. Tower:
C - 0 ________ T - 3
close matches
Stronghold vs. Inferno:
S - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno was inferior
Stronghold vs. Rampart:
S - 0 ________ R - 3
no-one could stop the elves
Stronghold vs. Castle:
S - 0 ________ C - 3
Stronghold was inferior
Stronghold vs. Tower:
S - 0 ________ T - 3
Stronghold was inferior
Stronghold vs. Dungeon:
S - 1 ________ D - 2
close matches
Inferno vs. Castle:
I - 0 ________ C - 3
inferno was inferior
Inferno vs. Tower:
I - 0 ________ T - 3
inferno was inferior
Inferno vs. Rampart:
I - 0 ________ R - 3
inferno had little chance
Inferno vs. Dungeon:
I - 0 ________ D - 3
inferno had little chance
Castle vs. Rampart:
C - 2 ________ R - 1
rampart had little chance
Castle vs. Tower:
C - 3 ________ T - 0
close matches
Castle vs. Dungeon:
C - 3 ________ D - 0
dungeon had little chance
Dungeon vs. Rampart:
D - 0 ________ R - 3
dungeon was inferoir
Dungeon vs. Tower:
D - 0 ________ T - 3
dungeon has almost no chance
Rampart vs. Tower:
R - 1 ________ T - 2
rampart has little chance
totals:
108 matches
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1- Tower has:
20 wins, 4 losses
titans, naga queens, and arch magi kicked ass
2- Conflux has:
19 wins, 5 losses
the double phoenixes make up for everything
3- Castle has:
17 wins, 7 losses
archangels, champions, zealots, crusaders, and griffins kicked ass
4- Necropolis has:
16 wins, 8 losses
the dreads ALMOST make up for ghosts' weakness. But they still NEED more skeletons.
5- Rampart has:
12 wins, 12 losses
the extra numbers of pegasi and dendroids help, and gold dragons are great
6- Stronghold has:
11 wins, 13 losses
Ancient Behemoths are the best lvl 7 one on one (@ 20 20)
7- Fortress has:
7 wins, 17 losses
Mighty gorgons make up for the weak Wyverns, and hydras aren't bad
8- Dungeon has:
7 wins, 17 losses
Minotaur kings and Black dragons rule, paralyze from scorps is a bit**
9- Inferno has:
0 win, 24 losses
don't know what to say. Looks like they NEED that armageddon.
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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