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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Duel Tactics
Thread: Duel Tactics [ This thread is 18 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 (10) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ]
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 30, 2011 04:22 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 04:23, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
Also folks, never forget that the unorthodox builds are almost always the most fun.
Might Academy is disturbingly fun. XD


Yeah, and a demon lord with light magic & leadership rocks, as from all the factions, inferno benefits the most from divine strength.

@Deathy : look there is a time and place for any skills for any factions depending on who you're up against and the map, so I say that some of the 2% skills suck, but really mean that they are an option I wouldn't generally choose.

I guess we can all agree that the following skills (in isolation) truly sucks big time:

knight - summ magic
necro - leadership



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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted March 30, 2011 06:54 AM

yes, true that in map games you could have situations where picking 2% skill won't be worth it(like getting dark magic but none of it's spells) but as an example i would still pick enlightment with knights and shout with barbarians no matter what situation or matchup they were offered. i mean what skills could be better than these two in general anyway.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 30, 2011 07:42 AM

Quote:
yes, true that in map games you could have situations where picking 2% skill won't be worth it(like getting dark magic but none of it's spells) but as an example i would still pick enlightment with knights and shout with barbarians no matter what situation or matchup they were offered. i mean what skills could be better than these two in general anyway.


Knight:

Your important attributes are attack and defense and these already are quite high in end game, so not really necessary to go for enlightenment.

Best skills for knight:
Leadership (empathy & divine guidance)
Attack (retribution)

Barbarian:

Warcries are great (esp fear my roar and horde's anger) but I tend to focus on my troops instead of my hero.

Best skills for Barbarian (same as knight):
Leadership (battle elation & divine guidance)
Attack (stunning blow & excruciating strike) (tend to forget about warcries with this!)

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted March 30, 2011 07:50 AM

Divine guidance and excruciating blow not only fail to work in synergy but also fail in competitive gaming. Unless you are playing Kragh I suppose.
____________
Then what's your excuse for that
steady stream of mindless
pollution that you call talking,
Edwin?

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted March 30, 2011 08:18 AM

Yeah I much rather get Aura of Swiftness, and then attack with tactic and Retribution.
But ofc it all depends on the certain situation.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 30, 2011 08:40 AM

Agreed they don't work in synergy, but they do work separately:

Use divine guidance early on and
Stun blow/exc strike later on in the battle (as you lose some troops)

(plus they both lead to orc's ultimate)

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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted March 30, 2011 08:56 AM
Edited by Deathy at 09:06, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
yes, true that in map games you could have situations where picking 2% skill won't be worth it(like getting dark magic but none of it's spells) but as an example i would still pick enlightment with knights and shout with barbarians no matter what situation or matchup they were offered. i mean what skills could be better than these two in general anyway.


Knight:

Your important attributes are attack and defense and these already are quite high in end game, so not really necessary to go for enlightenment.

Best skills for knight:
Leadership (empathy & divine guidance)
Attack (retribution)

Barbarian:

Warcries are great (esp fear my roar and horde's anger) but I tend to focus on my troops instead of my hero.

Best skills for Barbarian (same as knight):
Leadership (battle elation & divine guidance)
Attack (stunning blow & excruciating strike) (tend to forget about warcries with this!)



sorry but your just wrong in this.

getting leadership and attack does in no way prevent from getting enlightment aswell with knight hero. and no, your might stats might not be THAT high(ive had games where my base attack has been around 5-7 only) that getting more wouldn't be worth it. what if your facing for example sylvan,inferno,stronghold or another haven with enlightment? they will have double the might stats compared to yours and will beat your units might wise then. and what about caster factions, having those double might stats allows you to kill dungeons and academy's units MUCH faster for example. and casters rely on the fact that they are able to cast as much as possible, so killing their units faster will only work in your advantage. and as i said in my previous post, you can also boost your dark or light magic tremendeously by getting enlightment because ive had games where i only had 1 spell power or 1 knowledge by the time i was level 20.

now let's assume we are still talking about map games instead of duel games. and that our knight hero would be lvl 25 for example, ive had no troubles getting heroes that high myself atleast.

i personally would go for a build consisting of these skills

leadership,attack,defense,light or dark magic,enlightment. please do tell me what other skill you would use to replace enlightment in this setup? and how do you think it would benefit the hero better than enlightment?(this question assumes you were able to mentor away war machines and logistics after creeping)

as for your barbarian example both stunning blow & excruciating strike are outright bad and work against AI mainly. excruciating strike is good only for demon lords at best because their mark of the damned is actually good skill, unlike retaliation strike and powerful blow(although powerful blow is better than ret strike) and stunning blow is just waste of level up in the first place, especially when you could go retribution and tactics instead. divine guidance is also kind of waste for orcs, they have word of the chief already, not to mention chieftain on the battlefield too. that's two ways to fasten your units already. and once again, going for leadership and attack still does not rule out shout in anyway.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 30, 2011 09:10 AM

excruciating blow is free, unlike horde's anger. with empathy it could work.

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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted March 30, 2011 09:26 AM

if it would be 100% chance for the double damage then i could understand, however at 30% it isn't much to rely on really even with empathy.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 30, 2011 09:57 AM

@Deathy: Hey I love enlightenment, just prefer it for magic factions. I hear what you say in your last thread and you have some points here...look every skill has it's time and place. My opinions are mine, you have yours.

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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted March 30, 2011 10:21 AM

yes, im not trying to say my opinion would be better than yours somehow, i simply state findings that ive personally made by thinking builds through and playing both AI and humans myself, not to mention finding things from better players.

i just find enlightment to support haven hero and troops in every possible way both in might and magic. in might because having nearly double the attack and defense stats you would have without should not be ignored and in magic because light magic for example which enlightment makes much better, just buffs your might further and keeps your units in battlefield longer which is exactly what might faction should aim for

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted March 30, 2011 11:25 AM

Opinions may rank equally but the reality check says otherwise in the field of battle. Powerful blow and divine guidance mean less warcries -> less rage -> more casualties. Reason shout and enlightenment are so good is that the first allows rage to accumulate at a fast pace and the latter that you'll lose it slower due to better defense or by killing enemies easier -> less retaliation.

Enlightenment for magic factions is needed. In might it is not just good, it is game-breaking. Especially in haven and stronghold.
____________
Then what's your excuse for that
steady stream of mindless
pollution that you call talking,
Edwin?

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 30, 2011 11:33 AM
Edited by Fauch at 11:33, 30 Mar 2011.

powerful blow takes only half a turn, so it's not that bad.
divine guidance seems useless, you can use word of the chief.

what about swift mind? have to sacrifice 3 perks for it, but you can start the battle with battlecry

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted March 30, 2011 02:01 PM

Swift Mind is my favourite perk in the game (if it works).

I can't think of an instance where it's not a great spell. Admittingly the longer the overall length of the matchup the less significant it becomes but it can give you an insane edge early... I especially love Swift Mind on Orcs with Fear my Roar. Hmm that's right let that powerstack run right into the open for me to massacre it hmm delicious.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 31, 2011 02:11 AM

Quote:
yes, im not trying to say my opinion would be better than yours somehow, i simply state findings that ive personally made by thinking builds through and playing both AI and humans myself, not to mention finding things from better players.

i just find enlightment to support haven hero and troops in every possible way both in might and magic. in might because having nearly double the attack and defense stats you would have without should not be ignored and in magic because light magic for example which enlightment makes much better, just buffs your might further and keeps your units in battlefield longer which is exactly what might faction should aim for


Remember enlightenment increases only the primary stats, so for haven, it's attack and defense that increase, not the magic attributes. But with experience points increasing too, maybe some magic stats increase.

Hey Elven, I just want to say that this Duel tactics thread is the best H5 thread on the community! Shot!

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted March 31, 2011 02:53 AM

And that is why it's awesome, either way intelligence can help a lot with mana. And thanks
____________
Then what's your excuse for that
steady stream of mindless
pollution that you call talking,
Edwin?

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 31, 2011 07:23 AM

So would you always pick enlightment no matter what faction you play?

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted March 31, 2011 07:32 AM

Pretty much. Sometimes I may not pick it for sylvan if my build is geared towards a 1-2 turn complete slaughter but it's not something I try often.
____________
Then what's your excuse for that
steady stream of mindless
pollution that you call talking,
Edwin?

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted March 31, 2011 07:38 AM

Quote:
So would you always pick enlightment no matter what faction you play?

I most certainly would. Unless like Elvin said you plan to bumrush him with Sylvan.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 31, 2011 07:40 AM

Quote:
Swift Mind is my favourite perk in the game (if it works).

I can't think of an instance where it's not a great spell. Admittingly the longer the overall length of the matchup the less significant it becomes but it can give you an insane edge early... I especially love Swift Mind on Orcs with Fear my Roar. Hmm that's right let that powerstack run right into the open for me to massacre it hmm delicious./quote]
Or sylvan early swift mind to go righteous might on that first round carnage to boost it even more and watch the enemy be obliterated in the first turn.

Of course you can have swift mind and the enemy hero and every creature with init of 10 can still play before you...

But in a normal game where you pick logistics and enlightenment almost always anyways it tends to be worth it.
____________

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