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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted December 28, 2008 11:42 PM |
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Edited by veco at 23:47, 28 Dec 2008.
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Not always - I remember playing necro with low spellpower and 2 merchants provided me with 2 lion crowns, lion neclace, some destr boosters and attack arties. There was also a game vs Elvin when my warlock had smth around 16 knowlegde just from lvl ups. And since I couldn't see my stats I picked intelligence to ensure a steady mana flow. Didn't use even 1/5 of it
Do not hink you can alter bad luck with your futile efforts Elvin, hehe
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none of my business.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2008 11:45 PM |
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It is a fact that the primary skill allocation can occasionally be messy. Sometimes they can win games by themselves though this is less noticeable in duels than in full games. One example is a barbarian that has gained almost all of his stats in attack/defense but also got enlightenment as opposed to a knight without it and mediocre might skill allocation. Another is academy with great defense, spellpower and the defense skill vs a knight with low attack. Afaik there is nothing to be done in such cases but play your best and hope to bridge the gap with your tactical moves. Or with lots of luck 
That's why games are decided in best of three, if you have one unlucky game then you try to make up for it in the next.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Final_Boss
Adventuring Hero
The Necropope
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posted December 29, 2008 12:07 AM |
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I agree with Elvin. Nobody gets always the short stick.
Luck is important but mistakes are more deciding, I mean: atb randomness and some lucky strikes at the beginning of combat may give you a big advantage, but only if the enemy didn’t prepare himself for such common thing. Unit placement is very important and I’ve seen some players put their vampire princes in the first line vs haven. It is just an example.
And sometimes a bad luck isn’t such thing. Using the 7sp warlock example, all those skill points that he lack in sp must be somewhere, probably on attack, so unlearn some magic skills and build a might warlock. Fearing a powerful destructive warlock the enemy would have wasted some skill slots and gold on resistance thingies. Voila! Low sp is a good thing now.
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"They say an end can be a start. Feels like I've been buried yet I'm still alive"
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted December 29, 2008 12:16 AM |
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Not if most of those stats went to knowlegde  But I see your point and agree on that. I make dumb mistakes all the time and always get beaten around after a good start
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none of my business.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 29, 2008 12:17 AM |
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I've had some lucky games too as I said, they jsut tend to be a lot less than the unlucky ones.
Unlearning is really expensive, but you can quess I cursed for not building a might light warlock at that time.
Oh and there is nothing you can do if enemy starts with lucky atb bar and some lucky strikes unless you have crazy defense or something. This is especially true if you are might build.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 30, 2008 11:54 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:10, 31 Dec 2008.
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Time for another update! As you know there are many ways to fight a battle and I bet you had to switch tactics during one. For me there are two main categories:
Those who try to make their game. They build upon their strengths and play their best to overcome the opponent, for example orcs going all might with attack, luck, leadership and enlightenment and charging blindly.
Those who try to break the opponent's game. In contrast the latter are trying to hinder their opponent's play, for instance a necromancer cursing opposition and placing barriers to disrupt attackers.
This is not necessarily faction dependent, any faction can take that role though some can excel in a particular one. Yes orcs can get 4 shatters and spam fear my roar with expert shout but this is an unlikely build and more often than not a bad one. Your build and how you handle the fight will decide which category you fit in, also what magic you will use - buffs or a phoenix will aid you actively while puppet, confusion or arcane crystal will pester the opponent 
[It is not easy to simply classify everything under these so for the sake of discussion let's avoid taking this further and stick to the vague idea of the two roles. Most games are a mixture of both anyway.]
The second group is by far more interesting for me, it's what causes all those cool twists in epic battles  It's all about creativity, how to reduce your opponent's possible options or even better force him to take a singular course. Naturally it is also the harder way to play since the enemy may slip through to score some nasty hits when you thought you would avoid them. Also most of the disruptive tools at your disposal have flaws of their own, counters or require a precise timing. If your puppet decreases the target's initiative too much it may be be dispelled, frenzy's impact can be lessened by moving weak stacks nearby, barrier is nice but may not be cast in time to block chargers, arcane crystal may give time to run away and so on. On a positive note you tend to have the element of surprise as the opponent can only guess what aces you have up your sleeve. That means he might make some avoidance maneuvers that can prove pointless.
It is a combination of not only spells but also units and the battlefield so it's not easy to predict your moves until the right circumstances come up. It may require some steps to set in motion like block a few pathways or disable some units first.
Let's see what you think of this.
Actions from first to last are seducers, archdemons, bears, harpooners, berserkers, grunts, dragons. What would a possible plan for inferno be? For the record archdemons can reach but not teleport the berserkers close. Dwarves have soldier's luck and all runes.
Edit: Don't be fooled with the picture, the order of the creatures is the one given. Dragons act last of all
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 31, 2008 12:23 AM |
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Seduce on Blackbear Riders, and use them with Rune of Battle Rage to Paw Strike the Mountain Guards, Lava Dragons and Berserkers.
However, I'm not sure (never tried) if Paw Strike works with Rune of Battle Rage, in the sense that it makes all adjacent creatures lose initiative (with a high chance, especially with Soldier's Luck)
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 31, 2008 12:26 AM |
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 31, 2008 09:27 AM |
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I agree with Ash . Eventhough for that it is mandatory to not attack with the Archdemons because you'd block the path of the bear riders.
Leaping with the grunts on the Harpooners isn't too bright of an idea I believe unless you have high luck maybe. And well what's next is up to the atb.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 31, 2008 01:25 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:25, 31 Dec 2008.
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While rune of battlerage does work with paw strike you'd be surprised to see what happens when you try it with puppeted or seduced units - that is absolutely nothing Units under enemy control refuse to hit friends with battlerage and if you use some other rune they retaliate before you attack them. Still you are not far from what I have in mind, let's see how successful the next guess is
And what happens later is irrelevant, the chance to strike is now!
Meanwhile nobody has anything to add or even disagree with on my post? Or they look like a big pile of blahblah above a shiny picture?
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 31, 2008 02:55 PM |
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I have read your post, and I mostly like to have a mix of those two strategies. However, there are special cases when I just like to improve my strengths, for example, with Orcs. I don't like to take Shatters against certain enemies (Sylvan (you can never know for sure), Academy, etc), but against Necro Shatter Dark is a must (and maybe Summoning as well)
Also, one very good example of the things that try to counter the enemy is Elemental Balance - I just love to take it especially if I don't have the Phoenix myself but I know the enemy could possibly have it Or Cold Death to get rid of the enemy's War Machines quickly.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 31, 2008 03:40 PM |
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Yeah you can never know so I often have second thoughts when casting phoenix. A juicy tactic with opponents that have elemental balance is to summon a phoenix just before they act. That makes them summon a new one and the old is unsummoned, buys you time to get your units out of there
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted January 01, 2009 07:53 PM |
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I rarely play Haven (cuz it's boring for me) so this will propably not help me much:
If you train 13 Palas and 7 Priests you're left with 53352Gold
If you first get Expert Counterstrike and train them you're left with 62847.
If you then untrain Expert to Advanced you're still left with 60347
That's 7k Gold difference! what can you do with it? Untrain Retal Strike and Adv Counterstrike (4500) and you're still left with ~2500 additional Gold.
Just a hint for those who don't play Haven often (like me, hoho)
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none of my business.
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TheOdd
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 01, 2009 09:09 PM |
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Quote:
if you use some other rune they retaliate before you attack them.
Then I'd be itching to position a puppeted rider between the dragons and berserkers for classic breath exploitation. Unless I have the dragon's upgrade confused?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 01, 2009 10:56 PM |
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@Veco
It's simple, never train before leveling
Quote:
Then I'd be itching to position a puppeted rider between the dragons and berserkers for classic breath exploitation. Unless I have the dragon's upgrade confused?
Good thought but the breath wouldn't reach the berserkers, too far I'll give a hint, dragon's breath is included in my plan. First to get it wins a hero cookie! On that note I should make a list with cookies, I already owe Asheera one.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 01, 2009 11:20 PM |
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Ok another try:
Seduce bears, push the Berserkers back using Paw Strike, then jump with Grunts and attack Dragons which will retaliate and strike at the Berserkers as well.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 01, 2009 11:25 PM |
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Bingo! There is one missing piece but I won't let that deny you the cookie You are supposed to also use rune of resurrection to increase the bears' hp and therefore make paw strike easy to trigger. The berserkers were never meant to get an action
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TheOdd
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 02, 2009 11:34 AM |
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Quote:
Good thought but the breath wouldn't reach the berserkers, too far
Serves me right for believing the ability descriptions. Dunno why Nival wrote "hits units positioned behind" when they meant hits the tile behind... then again, there are a lot of things Nival does that make no sense.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 02, 2009 11:43 AM |
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Well technically it does, it just did not state things accurately The firebreath works as it always has since H1, possible exception H4 where blackies could hit 3 small units in line. At least I think so, been a long time.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 14, 2009 03:40 PM |
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I just thought of a nasty strategy for Haven, don't know if it's really effective in practice.
I think it is good especially against Stronghold or non-damaging spells factions, against factions like dungeon it is most certainly ineffective. Anyway, it is centered around getting Preparation (and Stand your Ground obviously), and getting Battle Griffins.
Then go and block the Centaurs and the other enemy units with them (maybe teleport them with the hero?) and then defend. Not only their defense will be boosted considerably because of Stand your Ground, but also because of Unlimited Retaliation they will not only strike before the enemy, but also after. And add the griffin's special ability to deal more damage as more retaliations occur which means the retaliation of the Griffin (after the enemy attack) will deal more damage than normal. And as the enemy attacks them more and more it gets even worse.
And if the enemy refuses to attack them your Crossbowmen will deal with the enemy's units.
Well just a theory, so it may have flaws.
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