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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Sex and drugs
Thread: Sex and drugs This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted February 04, 2009 10:09 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:12, 04 Feb 2009.

Sex and drugs

well the topic is about sex vs. drugs, and the way we perceive them both.

Let me start by responding to mvass' chart posted at the LGBT thread.


Mvass: The diagram is so horribly wrong.

Drugs give different kind of pleasure. It can't be compared like that.

First, the pleasure of sex is a medium-length period of mild pleasure, and a very short period of high pleasure.

Drugs, the stronger at least, offer a long period of mid-to-high pleasure, and a long period of fail.

Second, they say heroin is better than sex, and they most likely know what they say.

Third, both the intensity of sex and drugs diminish in time.


If I had to post an extremely simplified chart on that matter, I'd rather go with one like that



ofc the drug periods should be longer but I wanted to make it more visible



As for the drugs themselves, I'm for full legalization. What's forbidden always tempts more, the criminals wouldn't get as much money as they do right now for smuggling drugs, and people that do it anyway wouldn't have to do that paranoid buy-and-hide stuff.

Prohibiting never does ANY good. Because you can buy drugs at the corner of your street. What kind of a prohibition is that? >_>

Besides, why one drugs are legal, and other are not? Alcohol is a drug. It's classified as depressant, and works in similar way to heroin (well, technically), affecting the central nervous system. Is the alcohol lobby too strong for people to learn that alcohol has worse long-term effects than most of the prohibited drugs? I'm not thinking of highly destructive, like heroin or morphine, of course. But the demonized MDMA (extasy) has in fact a lower destructive potential than alcohol over time. It's just that it's worse if you overdo it (or, in other words, it's easier to overdo. Alcohol is 100% lethal if overdone, but it's rather hard to get to that state because you'll pass out first )

As for sex (yeah, Death. It's the topic for you!). Well, it's fun. >_> Go ahead and discuss.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted February 04, 2009 10:17 AM
Edited by Lexxan at 10:20, 04 Feb 2009.

Hang on!

You can measure pleasure?

EDIT:
On-topic: I thikn drugs give you some great pleasure, but when the effect vanishes, you become unhappy or so... Well, I have no experience in that field anyway.

Sex is fun to a certain point, a climax. I think (not knowing about Drugs) that it's pleasure span is shorter but a lot more intense. And it doesn't have anti-climax like drugs have.

I don't know about Sex AND drugs -

overall, I think it's merely logical that Sex is better that drugs

TheDeath, eat your heart  out!
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted February 04, 2009 10:24 AM

Quote:
Hang on!

You can measure pleasure?


Guess so. But the chart isn't of course meant to do so, it's just a response to mvass. Please ignore it

Quote:
On-topic: I thikn drugs give you some great pleasure, but when the effect vanishes, you become unhappy or so... Well, I have no experience in that field anyway.


I know a great forum for all kind of junkies, where you can learn all kinds of stuff, read the descriptions of the trips and so on. Polish, unfortunately, but highly enlightening.
here

You may try google translating it, it's worth it

Quote:
Sex is fun to a certain point, a climax. I think (not knowing about Drugs) that it's pleasure span is shorter but a lot more intense. And it doesn't have anti-climax like drugs have.


Depends how good the sex was itself. A bad sex gives a foul mood.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 04, 2009 11:39 AM

I think that Death makes some assumptions that he should explain the reasons for.

1) I want him to tell us what EXACTLY is actually the "bad" thing about "drugs" as a whole and WHY.
2) I want him to explain his opinion that sex is done (when not done for reproduction) exclusively "for pleasure": what makes him think so or how does he define "pleasure"?

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DagothGares
DagothGares


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posted February 04, 2009 01:51 PM

There are drugs that destroy your brain...

People are stupid enough... Why enhance that? Honestly, there are better ways to have fun, than (hard) drugs.
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Doomforge
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posted February 04, 2009 01:57 PM

Eventually, you'll die anyway. And there are other things that also do a lot of harm to us and we can't help it. Possibly more than a drug once per week or so.

PS. no I don't do drugs, smoke or drink, in case you think I'm defending my hobbies
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted February 04, 2009 02:00 PM

I'm all for legalization of drugs as well.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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posted February 04, 2009 02:00 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 14:01, 04 Feb 2009.

Yes, but I frankly couldn't care less about my body. It's your brain that will last longest and what is needed themost to progress in any given direction.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 04, 2009 02:04 PM

The question isn't about "some" drugs. Death's point is that sex is like "a" drug - any drug, in other words.

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TitaniumAlloy
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posted February 04, 2009 02:09 PM

Not all drugs are the same or necessarily similar in their peaks etc.
Especially not if you include depressants under drugs.



But if people want to take drugs they can get them and making them illegal doesn't prevent that.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted February 04, 2009 02:09 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 14:11, 04 Feb 2009.

Dagoth: Still, nobody forces you to take them, even if they are legal.

However, what governments do is a futile attempt of forcing people NOT to take them.


Futile, because everybody who wants to take drugs, does it anyway.


Think of all the positive aspects of legalizing drugs. They would be sold in shops normally, and the seller would be just like pharmacist, you could ask him what to do and what NOT to do, the amount of drug-poisoning and overdose would be reduced to minimum, unless somebody would deliberately overdose, of course. Drugs would be clean, no stupid filler like plaster would destroy people's veins. (Heroin often comes with plaster fillers - among other things, unfortunately - and the fillers really DO destroy the veins.) The criminal activity around the subject would be reduced, and the country would benefit from it too (taxes, obviously).

Cons? Can't think about any, really.

Legalization doesn't mean you have to do drugs. We have our own minds and we can decide whether we want it or not. We don't need the country to babysit us and treat us like stupid children, whose can't be left on their own.

Do you drink alcohol at times, Dagoth?
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted February 04, 2009 02:14 PM

The other pro's are that the money goes to the government and to helping the community rather than fuelling the drug lords.

In a capitalist society if there is a demand...




I don't think it is so bad to experiment with drugs.
But I think that it can't be good to take pill or get wasted when you're still growing, should at least wait until you're 18 before people start punishing their brain

Oh, and, take half of what you're offered. If teenagers followed this most downfalls would be prevented.
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DagothGares
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posted February 04, 2009 02:37 PM

Actually, I don't drink, doom...

In my family, two people died of lung cancer and a close relative of mine was a junkie. I personally stay away from any possibly addictive substances.
I don't want other people to (potentially) ruin their life...

That's as far as you'll drag me into this. I sincerely doubt that the economy improves, since you'll only produce addictive goods. Not sure whether it facilitates life...
And the crime argument is flawed. Prostitution was legalised in Holland because of this, yet, there still were pimps who abused the women. (I think it's been illegalised recently, but I'm not sure...) (I just drag prostitution in as an example, I'm not against that, actually...)
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Doomforge
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posted February 04, 2009 02:42 PM

And half of my family died because of alcoholism, either by illness caused by years of excessive drinking, or just because they drank themselves to death (aka my grandfather.).

I still think drugs and alcohol should be 100% legal.

I'm NOT a good uncle to tell people XXX is bad. They have the brains to decide themselves.
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DagothGares
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posted February 04, 2009 02:46 PM

In theory, I should support your point...

I follow you and normally, I'd say that's the only way that people learn to think for themselves and do what's right for them...
Ah, never mind me. I just don't want to lose anyone to something as stupid as this. Despite that if someone would ruin their life through this there would probably be more reason behind it than the drugs, I'm sure...
Bah...
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted February 04, 2009 03:18 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 15:19, 04 Feb 2009.

of course there is.

Myself, If I fail at life, I'll move to a rich country where average payment is enough to live a normal life, and just work somewhere, and smoke weed, drink alcohol, play games and visit brothels after work, using harder drugs once in a while, too.

And I'm pretty much sure that's how I will end, anyway. So the subject isn't that unconcerning to me.

Fail = no job or a job I'd hate and despise + lack of serious relationship.

Right now, I'm clean, but I have a feeling it won't last many years longer.

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kipshasz
kipshasz


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posted February 04, 2009 04:23 PM

Drugs suck. Read 'Heroin' and you'll know why. I'm for legalizing weed though. Think of it: why drink and drive, when you can smoke and fly?


im for safe sex. Safe sex- no nasty surprises.
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william
william


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posted February 04, 2009 04:28 PM

You say drugs suck, but then say that you're all for legalising weed, which is also a drug. Anyway, smoking and flying might be alright for the person experiencing the drugs effects but they often fail to realise that this is having a negative effect on their brain. Most drugs (the bad ones) affect the brain in negative ways, and because drugs are usually addictive, the person will keep coming back and back for more and eventually affect their brain so much that they might kill themselves or totally lose it.
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TheDeath
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posted February 04, 2009 04:37 PM

Quote:
overall, I think it's merely logical instinctual that Sex is better that drugs
See your correction
And that's precisely why it is that way, because instincts always try to CONTROL your brain (mind-control). No, I am not talking about reflexes, but about those that release all sorts of substances and act as neurological stuff on the brain. It is clearly not coming from the brain, and logic comes from the brain. In fact, the reason they are used in the first place, is that if you HAD deep logic and an active brain, you wouldn't do it.

How can you move a shark that doesn't want to move to east? Give him some artificial smell towards that direction. They called this experiment the "mind controlling" of the sharks even though they did not even touch its brain, they only gave it an artificial (virtual) smell towards that direction. And guess what? He went that way.

Quote:
1) I want him to tell us what EXACTLY is actually the "bad" thing about "drugs" as a whole and WHY.
Well that is a matter of debate. I would not argue, as long as people don't call me "how can you compare these two?". I have a problem (as in, arguing) mostly with people who claim sex is "different" or "better" or has a "higher purpose" or whatever other nonsense. (sex for pleasure mind you, not procreation).

Quote:
2) I want him to explain his opinion that sex is done (when not done for reproduction) exclusively "for pleasure": what makes him think so or how does he define "pleasure"?
Pleasure is the feeling that you experience. However it is distinct from other forms because it attempts to control your brain.

For a comparison, it has the same relationship to joy/happiness/bliss like pain has to sadness/sorrow/depression.

Quote:
I'm NOT a good uncle to tell people XXX is bad. They have the brains to decide themselves.
That's the problem. They do NOT have the "brains" to decide, well they do have but are mind-controlled. That's what pleasure DOES. Do you ever wonder why it needs to release all those substances into the brain and stuff like that? Because it needs a "shut down the conscious/logical reasoning" function in order for you to want it. That's why it happens. That's what makes it different than any entertainment or drama experienced (which is more like art, and usually is processed by the right-hemisphere of the brain ).

That's why it even releases those substances in the FIRST place: it knows it's the only way you'll ever do it. If you want an example, Ask one of these guys. Make no mistake: these guys are not all "logical" or "rational" to skip sex. They may or may not be, depending on the person. These guys simply never shut down their brains because, probably, those substances aren't released or ineffective in their bodies. They simply DO NOT LIKE sex, just like you do not like X (replace X with whatever, for Lexxan it would be spiders ). The brain in their case does not 'suppress' those substances, it just functions on all the time without any neuro-controlling substances. That said, if you indeed insert some artificial substances similar, they may become addicted. There is a difference between some and the others who skip sex because of rationality (and just about any other such pleasure): the latter can suppress substances/instincts with their conscious brain before it shuts it down. So even if you inserted artificial substances, they may still not become addicted.

Drugs are easier to skip first TIME only because you do not experience them beforehand, while sex is built-in (and mind you, nature did it for procreation because humans wouldn't BREED otherwise and we would go extinct, it attempts to mind-control us). So your brain gets controlled by that.


Legalizing drugs isn't the best way. It will increase crime for those who cannot afford them but they will want it because of addiction (and which wouldn't even have drugs otherwise).

And the last thing that makes sex similar to drugs: sex-related crimes.



Question: If you were given the chance to get rid of the drug that is released during sex (and what constitutes ALL THE PLEASURE), would you accept it and have a less wasted life? (after all, who doesn't want to be 100% conscious all the time?)

BTW: Mvass (from the other thread), sex's pleasure is WITHIN YOU, it is only in YOUR mind, or shall I say, shut-down conscious mind. (not FULLY obviously!). All sensory information is WITHIN you. If you were in a matrix you would have had absolutely NO IDEA (like the EEE) that it is "outside" or "inside". All sensory information (and pleasure included, mostly based on mind-controlling substances) is WITHIN YOU.
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kipshasz
kipshasz


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posted February 04, 2009 04:55 PM

@William: what i meant to say that strong drugs like opium, LSD and alike suck. And blowing weed on RARE occasions cant do MUCH harm.
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Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
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