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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2009 07:00 PM |
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Mvass, you were 8 years old. Let's make that 10 years before, 1998 (we're too early in 2009 to count). In 1998, 286 weren't that common at all...
It was definitely before 1998 that I used that computer. Maybe 1996 or 1995. (Although "poke around" would be more accurate than "use". And it was my grandpa's old computer.
And we have public transport in some parts of the US. (Though not where I live.) In some areas, it's more convenient to have a car, though. In others, traffic is such that it isn't.
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Eccentric Opinion
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homm3megejas
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 07, 2009 07:25 PM |
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"I have Windows XP.
My computer specs:
256 Mb RAM
20 GB hard drive"
The same for me, yet this isn't nothing special  .
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted February 07, 2009 07:55 PM |
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But what about compatibility?
Check the it!
Check it.
For distro, i got no idea since i have not tested it.
But suggestions to test are:
Crunchbang Linux
Puppy Linux
And maybe a few others? Just test it.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 07, 2009 08:38 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 21:25, 07 Feb 2009.
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Should I install Linux?
Short answer; yes. You should give it a try.
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What do I do about compatibility with stuff like Word, Excel, and games?
One by one. First, ask yourself what do you want to do with your computer? Why Word, why Excel? Just like others said, there is the option of Openoffice. One thing you won't make it work though is open some .xls and .ppt files that come with macros. There are many issues there, but fortunately, files like these you get only on few chain/spam emails, so I don't think that can bother you a lot. 
On the other hand, why Word? I've suggested it in the past, that the best typesetting system is LaTeX.
Why is that? Many reasons:
1] Compared to Word, you generate documents in postrscript (.ps) or portable document format (.pdf), that open on all computers with free software. No-one is obliged to pay a program (let's forget the piracy for a while) and read what you write (like in .doc files).
2] You are interested in Economics, so at some point on the things that you write you have to type some equations. Have you tried the equation editor that comes with ms office? It sucks; a lot! On latex, on the other hand, you can type everything naturally.
3] Word is like a spoiled little child. Not only do you have to figure out what you want to write, but also, you have to do the job of how is it going to be presented. That's not the case with LaTeX. There, you have a publication company in your computer, that follows rules, and does this work for you (of course you can change the layout if you want). And the point is, that the computer knows how to do the job, because it follows standards. This also results in a nicer presentation of your documents.
4] It's easier to write on large files, and you don't have to "face the consequences" of files that are large just like in word. Many reasons for that and I won't elaborate now.
5] Other reasons also come into my mind, but some of them will prove useful to you when you are in college. Others are things that you haven't even thought about doing with word; e.g. calendar with your class schedule - exclude national holidays - include birthdays of friends - and stuff like that, or generate cd-covers, or ... (fill in the blank).
As for presentations, you can use the same tool: LaTeX. So, say goodbye to Powerpoint too. Again you generate .ps or .pdf documents and everyone can open them.
Now we reach Excel. I guess the reason that you might want to use Excel, is to generate spreadsheets, and write stuff in columns and rows. For this part an easy solution is to use Openoffice and you are ok. Most likely you want to perform simple operations on a "per row" or "per column" basis, and these are all easy. However, usually, this is an intermediate medium, or it is used if you are lazy.  Because all these values serve a purpose and at some point you want to present some data. This usually means that a few words are needed to describe what you are doing. So once you do the math operations that you want in the spreadsheet, what you really want is write some stuff and describe the table you just created. This leads you once again to LaTeX.
In short: Whether you switch to linux or not, you should really learn how to use LaTeX (pronounciation: TeX, LaTeX). And the sooner you do this, the better for you. Especially, if you want to get involved in academia (like you do), there is no option. So, do it now. Perhaps we can discuss about latex in another thread. I always wanted such a thread, but never found the courage to start everything from scratch. If you are motivated, we can do it together.
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And what about the interface?
What about it? I think it's nice.
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Being used to XP, which version of Linux should I get?
That, we 'll figure it out... Ubuntu has the good thing that it's installed easily and I recommend it for starters. But your cpu is not that special. If I were you I would install debian and use windowmaker as a window manager, but that might be kind of problematic during the first few days of your installation. Once you are done though, it will be ultra-fast.
However, it might be the case that actually what suits you best is entirely another distro. I really have to think about that. Or you might want to try xfce (e.g. an easy solution is Xubuntu - hopefully they still produce that extra distribution).
Actually, may be the option for you right now is: fluxbuntu
And on the funny side, here is another distribution: Ichthux
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And how is it performance-wise?
Depends on the window manager that you load on startup. You need something light-weight, and you'll compare to windows or even surpass the response time you had there. But for that I think you should skip the two most popular window managers among users which are gnome and kde. My suggestion is go for fluxbox (screenshots or here because the previous one doesn't seem to work atm), windowmaker (screenshots), or xfce (screenshots). May be another option is enlightenment (screenshots by clicking on images between paragraphs) but I don't have experience with that one, so I can't say much. These are 4 viable options though.
Moreover, you should also think what you are going to do with your computer. Do you plan to buy another one soon? May be then, all the trouble is not worth it at all right now (although you should try latex - I stress this once again). In addition, if you install linux for first time, you should have a "dual boot"; i.e. load windows or linux at will. If you want to play a game or two, then Windows all the way. Few problems, and superb gaming. Not only that, but your response time on windows will be improved too, because you can avoid installing anti-virus/anti-spam, anti-whatever if you restrict yourself browsing the net only through linux. Finally, give your pc some air. Spend <10$ on aftermarket and buy 256 ram - the improvements will be noticeable even if you stick on windows. With less than another 10$-15$ (may be that's too much) you can buy another 20gb hard drive and do your work easier on a dual boot system. You can still do it with 20gb, but we have to discuss which games you want for windows. It seems that less than 6-7 gb for the installation of win is impossible, which leaves you with 13gb for everything else on linux. That's not much nowdays, since most distros come with one of the kde or gnome windowmanagers, and although you can uninstall them later on (and use e.g. fluxbox), at some point you should have 2 windowmanagers installed simultaneously (not entirely true, but ..).
Tell us more about what you do daily (and rarely), and I can be more specific. May be you shouldn't install linux at all at this point.
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The empty set
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2009 09:32 PM |
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But everything runs more slowly with emulators.
Thanks for the advice, Dimis. But:
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First, ask yourself what do you want to do with your computer?
Work (mostly using Word and Excel), use the Internet, game, and occasionally watch videos.
Openoffice is slower than Microsoft Office. (Note that I use Office 2000, not Office 2007 )
I'm definitely not going to use LaTeX. That's for sure. I want a word processor, not some programming language thing.
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What about it? I think it's nice.
I'd want an interface that is similar to Windows and lightweight.
Anyway, what I need:
1. Speed (I want it to be lightweight and not use many resources.).
2. Compatibility (I want to be able to edit Word .doc and Excel .xls, and play Windows games).
3. An interface as close to Windows as possible.
(Sounds like I need Windows 98  ) As for the compatibility through emulators - the faster OS isn't going to do me much good if the emulated programs end up running more slowly. 
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Eccentric Opinion
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 07, 2009 10:02 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 22:26, 07 Feb 2009.
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Work (mostly using Word and Excel), use the Internet, game, and occasionally watch videos.
As I said, all these can be done. Btw, what graphics card do you have? Audio card?
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Openoffice is slower than Microsoft Office. (Note that I use Office 2000, not Office 2007
I'm definitely not going to use LaTeX. That's for sure. I want a word processor, not some programming language thing.
Just like Office 2000 is faster than 2007 ( ), latex is faster than both.
As for the "latex being a programming language thing" that's not the case.
The only difference that might seem strange initially is that you have to type \begin{document} and \end{document} in the end of your document.
If you want a plain text editor, why don't you use notepad? What necessities make you use Word? Think about it. And think about the equation editor. Think about other compatibility issues that arise every now and then when you use fonts that others don't have and the documents are unreadable. Another trick to convince you that word is not a text-editor. Open a new document, type "a", and save it. How much space does it occupy?
Another thing is, that sometimes you want to add comments to your documents for future reference, but at least on "this release" of your document, you don't want them to be there. How on earth can you do that with Word? No hope...
Have you tried to open .doc files > 20MB?
I mean, it's ridiculous. It takes too much time to open a file that has words and some images in it. And besides, why should it take 20MB??? No reason at all.
Another thing is, trying to justify that "floating object" in a specific part of your document.
Good luck on some images and floating boxes! I really mean it ... GOOD LUCK!
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What about it? I think it's nice.
I'd want an interface that is similar to Windows and lightweight.
I already gave you 4 options. I also edited the previous post to include screenshots as well. Have a look there, and you can decide. At this point you have to toss a coin. I can not tell which one you'll prefer more.
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Anyway, what I need:
1. Speed (I want it to be lightweight and not use many resources.).
2. Compatibility (I want to be able to edit Word .doc and Excel .xls, and play Windows games).
3. An interface as close to Windows as possible.
If you want to play Windows games, have a partition for Windows. End of story.
If that partition you think should be larger than 10GB, then don't bother at all with linux (on this machine).
You still haven't said which games you play...
The other points are easy. But of course remember that you are familiar to windows during the last 10-15 years of your life, so, you have to give some time to whatever new you might try - two weeks or so, to familiarize yourself with the new environment.
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(Sounds like I need Windows 98 ) As for the compatibility through emulators - the faster OS isn't going to do me much good if the emulated programs end up running more slowly.
I agree about the emulators part - besides I suggested that you have a dual boot. There is another good solution which is hardly slower than native windows, but I don't think it's an alternative for your machine and linux experience - screenshots
Finally, another thing that you neglect is anti-viruses, anti-blah, ... that make your current windows installation slower. All these don't have to be installed on your linux partition. And the other good thing is that neither do you have to install them under QEMU. If this is the case, then I don't know if QEMU is actually slower than your current native windows installation...
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The empty set
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 07, 2009 11:21 PM |
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Quote:
I'd want an interface that is similar to Windows and lightweight.
Anyway, what I need:
1. Speed (I want it to be lightweight and not use many resources.).
2. Compatibility (I want to be able to edit Word .doc and Excel .xls, and play Windows games).
3. An interface as close to Windows as possible.
(Sounds like I need Windows 98 )
Yes it does sound like you need Windows 98 and it isn't a bad OS for that purpose (unless you have some USB devices because it has some problems with drivers, you need to search a lot...).
Why do you need Word so much? I don't even have MS Office
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No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2009 11:24 PM |
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted February 07, 2009 11:34 PM |
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mvass, one thing is sure, everyone is afraid of change. However, if you never take the time to change/learn/try out things, you'll never be able to do so, regardless of how easy and intuitive it will be when you actual know it.
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No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 07, 2009 11:49 PM |
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k
Last advice though: Spend <20$ on your computer and buy another small hard-drive, and probably some extra ram. Then install any distribution you want on the second drive and start playing around. You 'll have a reasonable amount of free space to install/uninstall stuff and figure out what you like and what you don't. You will be amazed how much fun those 20$ will give you. But of course, the final decision is yours.
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The empty set
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2009 12:37 AM |
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TheDeath and Dimis:
Yeah, I know. But it doesn't seem like an improvement at all. I think I'm just going to wait and get a new computer.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted February 08, 2009 02:24 AM |
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Linux is safer, faster, more reliable and overall better than Windows unless you get a problem. It can run almost all windows programs and applications trough wine, except for ones requiring directX10 (games from winter 08 an later), but that will be fixed soon.
You should not run Linux if:
You give up easily or are SUPER lazy
Play direct x 10 games
Otherwise do it.
The only thing is interface; the lunix interface can be made almost identical to windows, but trust me there a ton of things Linux has that windows doesn't you'll want.
For instance workspaces. Its like having multiple monitors and desktops, except you view them one at a time on your monitor.
Almost all of the sexy new vision features on vista started on Linux and it can look anywhere form efficient to more gorgeous tan you've ever seen. It has some seriously awesome visual features requiring little computer use. I suggest you make it like an upgraded windows interface.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2009 02:39 AM |
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But if I run them through Wine, wouldn't they run more slowly than if they would just run on Windows?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted February 08, 2009 02:48 AM |
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Depending on how you run widows it can be about the same to a little slower, but not nearly as much of a boost as you'll get from having a decent operating system.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted February 08, 2009 04:35 AM |
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*peeks in*
replying to the original post: go with either Fedora or OpenSuse, either with KDE4
avoid Ubuntu even though its popular, avoid Gnome because its stupid
I use Gentoo on my desktop, OpenSuse on my laptop and Moblin (Fedora based) on my netbook
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted February 08, 2009 06:42 AM |
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Ubuntu's great! All the kool kids do it! Don't you want to be kool to?
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 08, 2009 08:25 AM |
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Unfortunately ubuntu comes with bugs and flaws. Yes, it has all that great stuff but .. at some point you won't be able to do what you want. It's always a tradeoff in life ...
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The empty set
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted February 08, 2009 10:57 AM |
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But if I run them through Wine, wouldn't they run more slowly than if they would just run on Windows?
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But everything runs more slowly with emulators.
*cough* WINE means: Wine Is Not an Emulator *cough*
Its a compitablity layer.
http://Check appdb.winehq.org/
This is a list of what the reports of how the programs are running with Wine. A decently written program got a high chance of running out of the box. A badly written program with a total mess in its dependacy's or strange useage of the API and similar will have a higher chance of not running.
For Winehq's app report:
Platinium = Runs out of the box perfect
Gold = Runs very well, small problems or tweaks needed(like a .dll not included in Wine yet, or lacking a AA option for 3 games)
Silver = Runs, but worse than gold in its ways
Bronze = Runs worse than Silver
Garbage = Selvexplaining, what will not run at all
Unless you are running a virtual Windows machine there will be no loss of raw power.
I know for a sake that most Blizzard games run out of the box, i know that F1, F2, and Fallout Tactics runs out of the box. I know Morrowind runs out of the box.
*goes of hunting for my language comparision* *gives up* *attempts a bad rewrite*
Ok its someting on the lines of this:
*If you are emulating you got somebody else to translate for you
*If you are using a compitablity layer you are speaking the language yourself
*Since we are talking about a PC we could say that somebody else means a clone of yourself that uses a % of your power
Note: They would also run better for 1 reason, no AV to eat in the background
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replying to the original post: go with either Fedora or OpenSuse, either with KDE4
avoid Ubuntu even though its popular, avoid Gnome because its stupid
I use Gentoo on my desktop, OpenSuse on my laptop and Moblin (Fedora based) on my netbook
I would not attempt to run a computer with mvass specs with those Deskop Enviroments. If you had a better PC i would more than dare
As for a note: They would run, but running as in SLLLLLLLLLLLLOW aka not really running.
Note: Microsoft got a habit of underspecking what their OS runs on, and that means as in RUNS not as in slow running <.<
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2009 06:03 PM |
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Note: They would also run better for 1 reason, no AV to eat in the background
I have no AV running in the background anyway.
So how well does stuff run under Wine?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted February 08, 2009 06:34 PM |
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ahem....
considering my laptop is 8 years old and barely qualifies as anything other than "paperweight" now, i'd say his specs are more than adequate
as for WINE... lets see... Heroes5, DoW. Spore, Guild Wars... well, thats all i have installed currently... all run flawlessly... or more accurately, as flawed as they do under wintoss
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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