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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: EU bans use of 'Miss' and 'Mrs'
Thread: EU bans use of 'Miss' and 'Mrs' This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted March 23, 2009 02:34 PM

This seems to fit in the belitteling trend the EU has had for several years now. You can't do this, you can't do that, blablabla.

Seriously, I hope we can elect a party here that has us step out of the EU.  Trade treaties are enough, you don't need political bonds to work together.
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baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted March 24, 2009 10:23 AM

I've created a list of public things about music to be renamed to stop the sexism and meet the EU's quality standards:

The band Wolfmother is to be renamed into Wolfparent.
The song "LA Woman" by the Doors is to become "LA Human".
The song "She sells sanctuary" by the Cult should become "It sells sanctuary".
The song "White wedding" by Billy Idol is to lose the "White" prefix.
The song "Ironman" by Black Sabbath is to become "Ironperson" (likewise, all superheroes such as Batman, Spiderman etc. are to become Batpersons and Spiderpersons or they will be banned).
The song "Christian Woman" by Type-O Negative is to be transformed to "Religious Person".
The song "God save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols will be named "Higher Power save the Royalty".

The list goes on, of course, but these are some of the most important bits.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 24, 2009 11:03 AM

The song is called "Iron Man", by the way.

Some things are neither funny nor sarcastic or satiric; in this case they just show a simple, profound and complete unwillingness to consider the connections between language and social phenomina and vice versa in favor of an unreflected and ignorant bashing of politicians who have become safe scapegoats to hang every blame on to and get a laugh and a nod out of it at that.


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 24, 2009 11:18 AM

Quote:
The song "God save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols will be named "Higher Power save the Royalty".


That one was really funny

JJ, you're too serious about the subject
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baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted March 24, 2009 12:29 PM
Edited by baklava at 12:32, 24 Mar 2009.

Monocle time

Quote:
Some things are neither funny nor sarcastic or satiric; in this case they just show a simple, profound and complete unwillingness to consider the connections between language and social phenomina and vice versa in favor of an unreflected and ignorant bashing of politicians who have become safe scapegoats to hang every blame on to and get a laugh and a nod out of it at that.


Some men or, to be quite politically correct in this beautiful age we live in, persons neither have a sense of humour nor can they realize the ridiculousness found in several aspects of their opinion and thus engage in finding a dictionary and replying in such a complicated manner that they can only hope it will make the person's opponents confounded or make the very poster (the aforementioned person, in this case) seem more intelligent.
There are however cases where such logic fails to succeed, and where other people have monocles to put on and make, in the opinion of some, even more complicated posts which could be rather easily summed up in one simple sentence but they are engaging in overcomplexity simply to show a poster (or, if you will, a postress) that the ability to say a lot, yet say nothing, is far from genuinely ingenious and is, in fact, quite simple; which further implies the very futility of complicating your sentences, as that act neither proves anything nor oversaturates one's intellect.

***

Now that that's settled, language and social phenomena should have little or nothing to do with each other, much like the Church and the State aren't supposed to meddle in each other's affairs.
What my post was meant to show is that, according to this new logic of the so called European councils, people such as James Brown (with timeless classics such as "This is a man's world") would not only be socially shunned, but also possibly banned as probably no publisher would be allowed to accept them. Which is, I think even you can agree, sickening censorship.

I don't know if you have noticed that not a single female member has posted in this thread. Why? Because they couldn't care less.
Whoever I talked to about this subject in real life, male or female, every one of them said that the whole idea of banning half a language just for the illusion of political correctness is pointless and harmful. Females also said that they just can't understand how anyone could be offended by someone calling them Miss or Mrs, or by the word "statesman".

So who is offended by words such as "man-made"? That 0.001% of the planet which belongs to feminist organizations?
Is that what it's about? Brussels votes for whatever fanatical lobby gives them the most cash? Or is it about desperately trying to send a "look at us, we were all colonial racists 30 years ago but now we're all clean" message to the world? If that's the case, it'd be more productive to help the starving in Africa instead of bringing laws which dictate to throw away bananas which are 1% too yellow.

I think far more people are offended by the fact that their leaders, with all the current crises in the world, have nothing better to do than bring about laws such as this. What about those people? What about discrimination against them?

I will not have my language restricted cause of political games of bored old men. If you want to be part of it, go freaking ahead, but count me out of it. And I'll be the first to fight an elitist organization which is trying to tell me what I can and cannot say; and which created such laws without asking anyone.

I will never call a black man a "snow", I will never call a Jew a "kike". But you can be sure as hell that I'll call female flight attendants "stewardesses", and that I'll call sportsmen "sportsmen". And if that makes me a chauvinist, feel free to send me to a ****ing concentration camp to prove how politically correct you are and to ease your conscience about your grandfathers beating their wives and putting "only whites allowed" signs in front of their pubs.
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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted March 24, 2009 12:41 PM

Quote:
Monocle time

If I ever have a huge army, no even if it's only me... I will definetly make this my battle cry xD!!

And while I agree with you mostly I just gotta say that the part after the quote till **** is a feast for the mind. Thanks man.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted March 24, 2009 01:12 PM

Quote:
I will not have my language restricted


Baklava, who exactly is restricting your language?
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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted March 24, 2009 02:10 PM

Baklava You deserve a QP for that even though it doesn't mean anything.

But I love your sober view on things
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted March 24, 2009 03:01 PM

Quote:

There are however cases where such logic fails to succeed, and where other people have monocles to put on and make, in the opinion of some, even more complicated posts which could be rather easily summed up in one simple sentence but they are engaging in overcomplexity simply to show a poster (or, if you will, a postress) that the ability to say a lot, yet say nothing, is far from genuinely ingenious and is, in fact, quite simple; which further implies the very futility of complicating your sentences, as that act neither proves anything nor oversaturates one's intellect.

You are of course right with the one sentence thing, but that would have been too insulting.

Quote:

Now that that's settled, language and social phenomena should have little or nothing to do with each other,
Settles it indeed, because that sentence seems to be a demonstration of utter ignorance. Ever thought about why there are so many ways to call a woman a whöre, for example? Or why some nicknames are insulting and others are not? Don't you think that language is a mirror of the social reality of a society?

The rest of your post just shows one thing: that you didn't even understand what it's all about.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted March 24, 2009 05:01 PM

Then explain what it is about in simple english, because baklava made a good point.

The thing is: Why should we accept a change of our language? Are those spelling reforms branded in the back of your head? because Belgium also went through two reforms (the second one corrected the first mess) and I still don't think the state should mess with the language. The dictionary will adapt to the use of new words and the public schooling stops dialects (or it should, anyway)

and, please... Let's be civil, shall we?

Also, I adored that post of bak, but please... Belgium is quite sensitive about it's colonialist past.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted March 24, 2009 05:41 PM

I already explained it but, heck, why not again:

1) The address of a person. This is not a language thing, but a LEGAL thing. The constitution of all member states of the EU grants that no one must be discriminated because of his or her sex. This means that the constitution GRANTS an equality in addresses that way, that with one sex the address CANNOT be different depending on the marital status: if you want to HAVE different addresses depending on the marital status you must have them for men as well.
Addressing a person with the equivalent of Miss then is akin to an infringement of that person's rights of equal treatment - basically comparable with an insult. You can't call someone so as you cannot call a black person "snow" - or could not address a Jew, like, Jewmister, and everyone else with Mister.

2) The second point suggests to all EU members to find gender neutral names for professions like "officer" instead of "policeman". I already explained that a female "policeman" is dumb and "policewoman" even dumber. The name "policeman" (as an example) is simply wrong today, since women can be and are policemen as well, and LANGUAGE SHOULD REFLECT THAT.
It's basically no different from having "carriages" at one time; when they built in engines into carriages instead of having horses, they changed the name to motorcarriage, in short motorcar and later just car. Automobile was used as well.
With names like policeman it's the same: a policeman is a man who polices. What is a woman who polices? No policeman, right?
Should she be called "policeman"? Should she be called "policewoman"?
Let's just call them all police OFFICERS.

The idea behind it is to get rid of all names that reflect unequal rights - the name "policeman" does this since it implicits that this is an exclusively MALE profession. Which it isn't.

Note, that the EU just wants that there are OFFICIAL gender neutral names for these, that they are created and used from OFFICIALS in OFFICIAL language use. Which means, those new names will be used in all magazines on TV, in most newspapers and magazines and so on, and people will get used to them.
But big brother won't be watching anyone because of them - of course everyone can call a cop a policeman -, but in 10 years or so, a lot more people will say police officer instead which is as it should be.

But to get that accomplished you need those darn names - you have to CREATE them or find them in your language or whatever. (and I explained why this won't work in German because the articles are not gender neutral, which is why in Germany OFFICIALLY everything works as in the waiter/waitress example, and already for some time now, since we had this discussion in Germany already some time ago.)

That's behind it, and there is NOTHING AT ALL wrong with it.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 24, 2009 09:34 PM

Quote:
The constitution of all member states of the EU grants that no one must be discriminated because of his or her sex.
Referring to someone's sex is not discriminating against anybody.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
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posted March 25, 2009 07:07 AM

That depends on the situation.
And is not the point here.

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted March 25, 2009 10:30 AM

Quote:
Referring to someone's sex is not discriminating against anybody.


If i can spesificaly make sure you won't get that job due your gender or your preficse(miss?) or that its used for discrimination.
Image not getting a job because you Miss instead of Mrs? Or in reverse?
There won't really be a language reform, but a small change in the words used instead. Lets use Miss for under 18 then Mrs for over that age? Or we abolishe the use of Miss instead? Its simple and no pain to it. Its not a language reform but a general reform in the way we use the word.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted March 25, 2009 01:42 PM

Quote:
Image not getting a job because you Miss instead of Mrs? Or in reverse?
That's the business's choice, anyway.
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angelito
angelito


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Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 25, 2009 02:28 PM

Quote:
Xerox, you're a douche.
Miss, mr and alike are used when communicating with strangers e.g.  when you're on a job interview. Bah, you're still a pup, you'll learn.



Warning to Kipshasz! No personal insults allowed.
CoC:
Quote:
1) NO insults, abuse, racism or sexism.
Insult is a remark that undermines another person. A simple way to avoid insulting people is to discuss their actions and opinions rather than their personality. For example: instead of saying who they are ("you suck" or "you are an idiot") say what you think about their opinions/actions and why ("Your post about me is wrong because I never said that heroes 4 is a bad game" or "I disagree with your opinion because centaurs have more hit points than gnolls"). This simple rephrasing strategy can resolve many conflicts and fights before they even happen, both online and in life.


Next time this will be "rewarded".
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angelito
angelito


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proud father of a princess
posted March 25, 2009 02:52 PM

I find it quite interesting, that 98% of all posters here who think this "Mrs./Miss" thing is nonsense are MALE. Of course it is nonsense for you, because you are NOT adressed.

Maybe you think about where all these male words come from? there was a time where women only had 1 job stay at home, feed the baby and cook the meal and make the dishes.

But society evolved...and that's good that way. And why shouldn't we adapt?
- Don't you think it is a good idea a restaurant (at least in germany) HAS TO HAVE a restroom for men AND women each?
- Don't you think it is a good idea women are allowed to vote?
- Don't you think it is a good idea black people are allowed to use the same bus as white people in USA nowadays?
- Don't you think it is a good idea your boss isn't allowed to fire you only because he is catholic while you are protestant?
-
-
-
-
- and so on.

So if you think those things above are absolutely ok and necessary, then ALL issues refering to "discrimination" should be on the focus.

Example (unreal and funny, but what the heck..):

Imagine your country has a rule, all males who have a penis smaller than 6 inches have to be called BOY instead of MISTER.
And everytime you go to a meeting in your office, everyone calls you BOY George () instead of MISTER George. And your name badge in a workshop says: "BOY Paul".

How is that?

And this is not about "what problems are more important to solve". The EU, like every party itself also, has different "work groups". One cares about traffic in europe, the other cares about duty custom, the next about subsidies, and one cares about discrimination and all their facettes.
Problem is, you only get knowledge of those "funny" things, coz all other issues aren't very im portant for you, even though they may touch your regular life also. But the media won't make it public for the "normal" people.
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gabislayer
gabislayer


Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
suffering
posted March 25, 2009 03:01 PM
Edited by gabislayer at 15:12, 25 Mar 2009.

Well, this news isn't actually something new ... we are told how to behave, how to think, how to dress, what is important for us and what isn't ... why not how to speak ?

This media-out-of-the-box-no-thinking-required-culture we are bombarded with every day leaves no shortages of that.

George Carlin used to say that someday, we will hear people ... "Look at him Dan ... he's 90 years YOUNG !" ... or ... "...I won't have to die anymore .... I'll just pass away ... or expire like a magazine subscription".

The whole idea of banning words because they are not "politically correct" is completly stupid but .... it suits their purposes. I guess that someday the word EAT will be banned because of it's 'primitive' connotations ... well, then we will 'engage in a voluntary protein assimilation'.

The real problem of the world ... yeah, not that the CO2 emissions and other GHG's have increased sky-high in the atmosphere and threaten the very life on this planet ... no ... not that we have become just another resource that has to be exploited, not that when it suits their purpose they can send us into wars which have no justification but ... "for God and country" ... nooo .... it's the Mrs and Miss ... yeah, that's the thorn which was holding us back as a race.

PS:
"But society evolved...and that's good that way. And why shouldn't we adapt?
- Don't you think it is a good idea a restaurant (at least in germany) HAS TO HAVE a restroom for men AND women each?
- Don't you think it is a good idea women are allowed to vote?
- Don't you think it is a good idea black people are allowed to use the same bus as white people in USA nowadays?
- Don't you think it is a good idea your boss isn't allowed to fire you only because he is catholic while you are protestant?
-
-
-
-
- and so on."

You're talking about a change at the mental level, which is fine by me, but saying 'protein assimilation' instead of EATING (just an ironic example) has nothing to do with that at all. Avoiding words IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE THINK !
Sure they have different work groups ... it's just that it's very pleasing to see what are the primary problems of the day ... that get solved. It will amuse me to see, if I will still be alive of course, in the next 10/20 years how these 'major changes' will help us evolve to the next step as a race.
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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted March 25, 2009 03:11 PM

@ Angelito: Just how many women do you know who feel that the term "Mrs." is 'discriminating' or 'offensive' ?

I seriously don't see the problem.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 25, 2009 03:39 PM

You still didn't get it?

It hasn't got to do anything with the address as such. In the case of Mrs and Miss it's the fact that you have TWO addresses for women, depending on the marital status, and ONE for men, NO MATTER their marital status. That implies that the marital status of a man doesn't matter while for a woman it does. Clear now.

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