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| Thread: The Dictatorial Dictator's Dictatorship of North Korea |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 05:38 PM |
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The Dictatorial Dictator's Dictatorship of North Korea
The DPRK is known for its dictatorial and oppressive ways. This is what socialism leads to.
And now they've launched a missile. What can be done about that blighted nation?
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TheDeath
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posted April 05, 2009 05:45 PM |
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Are you talking about the supposed "satellite" launch?
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baklava
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posted April 05, 2009 05:58 PM |
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Meh.
Everything the major powers don't have the guts to say to China, they say to North Korea.
I got used to it some time ago.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 06:24 PM |
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That's a good question, what can the world do about it even if they wanted to? Almost everybody, including China, doesn't like N. Korea and would prefer a change of government in their country, but they have a very large military and more importantly they have nuclear capabilities. Even if they don't have the means to fire them over long distances, slipping a nuke into a country through other means is still a very real threat.
I don't think aggressive policy is the way to handle them anyway. When it really comes down to it, N. Korea is mostly the concern of the countries in the region- China, S. Korea, and Japan. The U.S. should withdrawal it's military presence from S. Korea. The only purpose the troops there serve is that if N. Korea ever attacked, U.S. troops would die and the U.S. would have the international green light to retaliate. The current military in S. Korea isn't actually capable of repelling an attack. Obviously the U.S. withdrawal would have to be over the span of several years to let the S. Koreans better mobilize themselves, but it should still be done.
There is no immediate solution to the problem. More than likely, the solution to N. Korea will come from the inside, not the outside. I think the world needs to just back off.
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del_diablo
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posted April 05, 2009 07:20 PM |
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Quote:
The DPRK is known for its dictatorial and oppressive ways. This is what socialism leads to.
And now they've launched a missile. What can be done about that blighted nation?
Simple:
*Remove all US presernce in entire asia
*Stop caring
And to correct you, socialisme kind of means there are no leadership, N.K. are not a socialistic country. Their are a dictatorship of sorts.
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 07:26 PM |
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Quote:
socialisme kind of means there are no leadership
Nope. Socialism means non-private ownership of the means of production. Certainly, North Korea has that.
And how can we stop caring when there are so many people suffering and starving there? Don't you people have a conscience?
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Darkshadow
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posted April 05, 2009 07:28 PM |
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Well, what's there to do?
The Chinese wouldn't appreciate a full scale assault on NK 
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Doomforge
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posted April 05, 2009 07:28 PM |
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mvass: well, go on and do something about it.
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 07:30 PM |
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Obviously invading might not be a good idea, but something's got to be done. Perhaps the West needs to "create" some unrest in the military, causing a coup and a takeover by the military like in Portugal in the 70s.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
Well, what's there to do?
The Chinese wouldn't appreciate a full scale assault on NK
That might have been true 15 years ago, but even that is questionable today. It's still the official policy of China that if N. Korea is ever invaded from the south, China would intervene on N. Korea's behalf (and vice versa, the U.S. would intervene on S. Korea's behalf if they were ever invaded.) But China has become increasingly pissed off with N. Korea and they were one of the biggest critics of N. Korea a year or so back when they did their nuclear weapon testing. China wants N. Korea to be more or less a northern puppet, not a dangerous force.
But like you said, what to do? It's not that by doing nothing we 'don't care', it's simply that doing nothing is probably the best and safest thing to do at this point.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 07:38 PM |
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Quote:
Obviously invading might not be a good idea, but something's got to be done. Perhaps the West needs to "create" some unrest in the military, causing a coup and a takeover by the military like in Portugal in the 70s.
Are you playing devil's advocate? 
The problem with coups is that they are an extremely dangerous wild card. First off, N. Korea is an extremely centralized and militarized country, so staging a coup would probably be a lot more difficult than the coup in Portugal or Iran, for example. But even if the coup did succeed, you're unable to guarantee that the next people in power will be any better. It is possible, even likely, that the new government would be even more dangerous than the first. And then of course if the coup failed but N. Korea noticed agents working within their borders, they would become even more hostile.
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 07:42 PM |
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Quote:
if the coup did succeed, you're unable to guarantee that the next people in power will be any better
It can hardly get any worse. I mean, they've hit rock bottom as far as quality of government goes.
And yeah, coups aren't safe, but I'm sure we could find some generals willing to overthrow Kim and introduce market reforms.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
It can hardly get any worse. I mean, they've hit rock bottom as far as quality of government goes.
And yeah, coups aren't safe, but I'm sure we could find some generals willing to overthrow Kim and introduce market reforms.
They haven't hit rock bottom. There's always a deeper layer. Kim isn't insane and doesn't seem to have any plans on charging into N. Korea. A ballsy enough nationalist in power could very well decide to storm S. Korea and then threaten to bomb Japan if anybody retaliated.
And even so, I'm not sure we really could get enough support to overthrow Kim. N. Korea is an extremely tight country. And although market reforms would assuredly be a good thing for the people, having a better market doesn't necessarily mean N. Korea is going to be any less dangerous.
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Darkshadow
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posted April 05, 2009 07:48 PM |
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Quote:
but I'm sure we could find some generals willing to overthrow Kim and introduce market reforms.
If he is even still alive.It is always possible that he has died and the generals rule there now, with actor's posing as Kim.
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 07:53 PM |
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blizzardboy:
I'm sure there are some people in the military that aren't happy with the way things are. All we have to do is find them.
If the West could've done that with Tukhachevsky and overthrown Stalin, things would have probably been much better.
DS:
Yeah... it's possible.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 07:58 PM |
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Quote:
blizzardboy:
I'm sure there are some people in the military that aren't happy with the way things are. All we have to do is find them.
If the West could've done that with Tukhachevsky and overthrown Stalin, things would have probably been much better.
Well it's not something we can ever say for sure, because again, coups are inevitably a dangerous gamble, and having the wrong guy in power of a nuclear nation makes it more dangerous now than ever. The fact that Kim doesn't seem to want to start a war is good enough for me to leave things at the status quo. N. Korea is a hardcore socialist country so it's likely they'll eventually just collapse like the Soviets did. Problem solved.
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Darkshadow
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posted April 05, 2009 08:11 PM |
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Or then the people will REALLY get tired (when that time comes no military can stop the inevitable) and NK will go to civil war (and that is NOT good).
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baklava
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posted April 05, 2009 08:16 PM |
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Quote:
Perhaps the West needs to "create" some unrest in the military, causing a coup and a takeover by the military
Oh well that's going to pass without much bloodshed.
Speaking of conscience, do you know why Franco's regime in Spain was allowed to remain up to 1975, when he died? Do you know why did Richard Nixon say "General Franco was a loyal friend and ally of the United States"? Francisco Franco, a fascist?
Because Franco had a strong anti-communist policy. Just because of that. That's what it takes for the West to befriend a fascist dictator.
Now sit down and think would the West care so much about anything that happens to the poor populace of North Korea if only Kim Jong Il's projectiles aimed towards the East instead of the West.
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TheDeath
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posted April 05, 2009 08:20 PM |
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Hmm this thread really took off since I last posted. Anyway, I don't actually see what you accuse them of: launching the missile, or just cause you don't like it overall? Well they don't like you either.
As for launching the missile -- let's just consider the satellite option first. As always some must be hypocrites trying to act as world police. This is obvious behavior and if you ask me I have no sympathy whatsoever for the supporters of "We've got nukes but we don't let YOU get nukes!" when they claim that they are "open minded" or "peaceful".
I mean it's fine if a dictator does that -- fine in the sense that I can at least understand that and he may even claim so himself that he is a hypocrite -- but in the case of USA it's a different question. It's one thing to say "Yeah I'm bad, and proud of it!" and another, much worse, to say "What do you say I'm bad? Yes I followed Ted Bundy and killed countless women but I am not bad!" (this was just an example with killers, draw a bigger picture from here), which is what the hypocrites do.
So you don't let them launch satellites and claim to be a free country? Cool, then blow up all your freaking satellites! (this is addressed to USA) oh and you crossed the line in this case when you sent out so many probes in space too! I fear you're past the moral event horizon!
Anyway now taking into account that the missile can be used as a test for ballistic range support, which is probably the case and "side effect" (although planned) of it, I say: so what? USA has them too, and it doesn't make a fuss about it.
What's this? A case of "I know what peace is, you may know what peace is, but if you go against my viewpoint of peace, we're gonna stop you! On the other hand, if we go against your viewpoint of peace, you shouldn't be able to stop us!" 
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 08:22 PM |
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Blizzardboy:
Meh, NK isn't that nuclear. Maybe having one nuke =/= real nuclear power. And how long would it take for it to collapse by itself? Quite possibly it could last another 50 or even a hundred years. We could all have flying cars and even play the newly-released Duke Nukem Forever and North Korea would still be a sealed-off hellhole.
Bak:
Yeah, US foreign policy is rather meh. On the other hand, anticommunism is important.
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