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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Dictatorial Dictator's Dictatorship of North Korea
Thread: The Dictatorial Dictator's Dictatorship of North Korea This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV
angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 08, 2009 09:02 AM

This is a thread about dictatorship in North Korea with small tendencies towards atomic wars, and of course mvass and TheDeath turn it again into a completely off topic (socialism/capitalism) direction.

Last word: If you both can only be convinced to go by the rules by getting penalized, then so be it.

No more warnings in the future for both of you!
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted April 08, 2009 09:25 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 09:32, 08 Apr 2009.

Going back to the original discussion on N.Korea/Nukes, I agree that dropping the atomic bombs was an unjustified move. Supporters of it often talk about the would-be casualties on both sides if mainland Japan needed to be invaded and how they would have been dramatically higher than dropping the bombs, but that's a weak argument since invading mainland Japan was likely unneeded. The axis in Europe had already been crushed by this point in the war and Japan was left alone. It's navy had already been obliterated and it's campaign on mainland Asia was doomed. Most importantly of all, it was completely cut off from oil and it's homeland resources were inadequate to fuel a good portion of their industry. At the very least, the Allies were in a position to undergo talks and show the Japanese the power of their new atomic weapon without actually frying babies on the street with it. I think it's extremely presumptuous to believe they would never have surrendered unless we literally nuked two of their cities.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 08, 2009 03:46 PM

Quote:
Whether or not something is analytical and/or quantitative doesn't mean it's a science. I.E. Music and history are not sciences. Economics is a science in the same way that rap is music. It's a social science, which isn't comparable to the hard sciences. The heart of the hard sciences are based on exact reproducibility. Economics is inextricably bound with human affairs and everything that comes with it: personal agendas, emotions, and shortcomings. It's no more a hard science than politics is.

You don't think "hard" science like physics, chemistry and biology aren't "inextricably bound" with "personal agendas, emotions and shortcomings"?  Take a look at the "human affairs" surrounding evolutionary biology, cosmatology or climatology.  Not to mention genetics and bioengineering.  Or nanotechnology.  The "human affairs" surrounding the science of economics is no different from that surrounding any of these other scientific disciplines.

Nevermind that - I'm not sure why you think something has to be a "hard" science (well, let's use the correct term here - a natural science) in order to be a scientific discipline.  And in any case, if you're going to make an argument based on such a superficial distinction, at least be precise in your language.  Economics IS a scientific discipline.  It may not be a "natural science", but I don't think anyone ever claimed that it was.

But anyway, this is off-topic, so carry on in the economics thread if you wish.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 08, 2009 09:24 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 21:25, 08 Apr 2009.

Whether economics is a science or not is irrelevant to the notion of socialism/capitalism which themselves are arbitrary, but I didn't think I would actually see someone as black and white and narrow-minded as mvass in this respect (I mean... come on?).

Quote:
As a last comment on the atomic bombs. For me PERSONALLY the one redeeming thing there is my conviction that, given the nature of humanity and the global situation in the 20th century, chances are that someone would have dropped a bomb somewhere anyway, and chances are that it wouldn't have been done with ONE then. The US drops over Japan showed everyone the terrible effects and may just have had the deterring effect necessary to avoid a global desaster.
Not that that would have been their intention, of course. But still...
I doubt that was their intention as well with 90% certainty, since they expressed SURPRISE when they saw the Soviets with one.

Also, here's an article:
Quote:
Clearly, by these bombings the US meant to demonstrate its absolute military superiority over all other countries-allies and enemies alike--in the whole world -- and to establish itself as the preeminent and unrivalled postwar superpower. The bombings were also a "live experiment" to measure the actual devastating power of the atomic bomb, with the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki chosen as guinea pigs. They were special targets because supposedly they had been unscathed by previous allied bombings.
So much for them being military targets. Don't you think that if they were, they would have been bombed until then at least once?

Quote:
The US meant to intimidate and blackmail the whole world into submission to its wishes. But by producing its own atomic bombs, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) frustrated the US design and ended US monopoly of these weapons of mass destruction. A nuclear stalemate ensued and deterred the US from further using its atom bombs. Later, Britain, France and China were able to produce their own atomic weapons.
Best thing that happened. Also similar to what is in this thread.

Quote:
The US has produced some 70,000 nuclear warheads since 1945. It engaged the USSR in a strategic arms race even as it waged in nonnuclear wars of aggression and military intervention worldwide to expand and consolidate global hegemony. However, under the intimidating shadow of the US nuclear umbrella, hundreds of millions of people came under the oppression and exploitation of the US and local reactionaries. Tens of millions were killed in US wars of aggression and intervention in Korea, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, and elsewhere. Millions of people were also massacred in Indonesia and other countries under puppet regimes of terror directed by the US.

The US forces invaded Iraq in 2003 under the pretext of destroying mythical weapons of mass destruction allegedly possessed by the Saddam regime. But it is the US, which has the largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction, biological, chemical and nuclear. The US has nuclear weapons with no less than 10,600 nuclear warheads intact, 8,000 of which are considered active or operational and 3,000 ready to deploy from its "Enduring Stockpile".

The US has also used 320 tons of depleted uranium artillery in the 1990 Gulf war. This has accounted for the eventual illness and death of tens of thousands of US troops after the war. Depleted uranium has also been used in the US wars of aggression against Yugoslavia. It is still being used in the renewed US aggression and occupation of Iraq despite the deadly effects and numerous health risks to soldiers and civilians.

US imperialism has long been the top World Merchant of Death. It amassed immense profits from selling armaments to both sides in the two world wars of the 20th century before joining the fray and collecting further spoils. Since 1990, the US has exported USD 152B worth of weapons in the form of sales and assistance. In 2001, it exported war material to no less than 170 nations and has earned USD 13.1B in that year alone, under the aegis of the "war on terror".
Article here




@angelito: if you would take the time to look back, this started from something about "economic freedoms" which I don't remember how exactly it got there, and for a page or so I wasn't even involved. can you imagine that it went on without me?
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted April 09, 2009 02:34 AM

Anyway, so this won't likely happen?
(on a comical relief note)


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