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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Liberal Club
Thread: The Liberal Club This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted April 09, 2009 03:16 PM

If it helps, imagine tht all shares are divided equally between all citizens while the government holds the voting rights for all shares.

That doesn't mean, of course, that different jobs don't earn different money, and it doesn't mean either, that there are no additional monetary or other gratifications for good work.

You'd see what it amounts to, when the banks are indeed nationalized (of course insurances will have to be nationalized as well).
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 09, 2009 06:07 PM
Edited by Lexxan at 18:07, 09 Apr 2009.

Excellent posts, C, but I'm not really convinced (QP well deserved tho)

Either way, can we go back to Liberalism?

@ Baklava, TheDeath: why not create you own Socialist club?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 09, 2009 07:01 PM

Quote:
...the U.S. is, by far, the most "criminal" country in the world, with 5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners. We spend $68 billion per year on corrections, and one-third of those being corrected are serving time for nonviolent drug crimes. We spend about $150 billion on policing and courts, and 47.5% of all arrests are marijuana-related. That is an awful lot of money, most of it nonfederal, that could be spent on better schools or infrastructure — or simply returned to the public. (See the top 10 ballot measures.)

At the same time, there is an enormous potential windfall in the taxation of marijuana. It is estimated that pot is the largest cash crop in California, with annual revenues approaching $14 billion. A 10% pot tax would yield $1.4 billion in California alone. And that's probably a fraction of the revenues that would be available — and of the economic impact, with thousands of new jobs in agriculture, packaging, marketing and advertising. A veritable marijuana economic-stimulus package!


Just some food for thought.
The way I see it is a bit greedy speaking. No, of course marijuana is not the end of the world, but let's hypothetically assume that it is going to have a bad impact on people (overall -- this includes becoming frustrated for "the next dose" etc)... with that assumption in mind, what it said above is like saying that it's better to treat someone than cure him -- a lot more money after all on medication, and for taxes, the government approves of it too!

In other words, it puts money above wellbeing of people. Typical for capitalism anyway.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 09, 2009 07:09 PM

@TheDeath
Quote:
In other words, it puts money above wellbeing of people.

How can you?  The two are intimately linked.

@Father
Thankfully, you don't have to be homosexual to understand equal protection under the law.  I don't consider forbidding homosexuals from marrying/adopting to be any different than (or less unconstitutional than) forbidding blacks, Jews, Italians, people with glasses, or whatever, from marrying/adopting.  Sadly, most people in this country let their prejudices, rather than their brains, guide their concepts of what is right and wrong.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 09, 2009 09:01 PM

Quote:
How can you?  The two are intimately linked.
You missed my example with healthcare -- curing vs treatment. The latter gives a whole lot more money. Doesn't make those guys who constantly need to go for treatment any "better off", that's for sure. (It might make the entrepreneur though, you know, to afford his fifth private jet...)

What do you mean they are linked?
So since slavery is gonna earn big bucks for someone (the master), it means the slaves are well off?
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 09, 2009 09:05 PM

I mean only that the "wellbeing" of people is intimately related to money, state of the economy, whatever you want.  
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 09, 2009 09:09 PM

Yeah but this isn't a case of economical money, it's more like a transfer out of people (and thus their wellbeing) into a more centralized thing. (company, government, etc...)

And of course, even the government is not going to give it all back either.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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posted April 09, 2009 10:14 PM

Quote:
And of course, even the government is not going to give it all back either.
Yes, they'll probably spend it on candy and funny hats...
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 09, 2009 10:14 PM

or guns
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted April 09, 2009 10:40 PM

Father:
The OSM Encyclopedia finally comes in handy.

TheDeath:
Slavery isn't voluntary. Choosing to do drugs is.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 09, 2009 10:48 PM

Quote:
Lexxan, are you saying that you would honestly not allow my partner and I to adopt a child if you were the one that made that choice?


Not really. I have nothing against Gay people personally, but I simply don't know what would happen to the child if it would were legalized. This is Ignorance's bane. If I would force me to vote for or against Gay adoption, I would simply abstain. I'm too much in doubt about this to have a formed opinion. I simply am not sure.

I won't be a hypocrite and tell that I'm only concerned about the wellfare about the child; I know that you are a parent already, and that (I expect so) are a good father for your children gay or not. I am really not sure whether it's a good idea to legalize it as a whole, but unlike Drug Legalization, I am in favour of having a test-case, as I don't believe that there won't be many (if any) negative effects of the legalization.

Damn' this makes me sound as an uber-conservative and homophobic person, but I truly am not. (I would have been against Same-sex mariages if that were the case; and I am not) I just don't know.


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baklava
baklava


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posted April 09, 2009 10:50 PM

Quote:
@ Baklava, TheDeath: why not create you own Socialist club?

Nah, I'm saying I'm a socialist just to counter you guys. I believe in the golden middle between public and private ownership, and that's where my interest in that subject more or less ends. I'm more environmentally concerned myself and since neither socialism nor capitalism expresses much care about the environment unless it gives them profit, I can only make a green club and chill out in it alone.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 09, 2009 10:51 PM

Quote:
I can only make a green club and chill out in it alone.

Then I must warn you, I'm pretty good at Bashing Greens
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baklava
baklava


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posted April 09, 2009 10:53 PM
Edited by baklava at 22:54, 09 Apr 2009.

Depends on which Greens we're talking about. I may even join you (in bashing, not in the liberal club ^^)
I'm an individualistic type of guy. Stopped believing in organized Green political parties after seeing the German one.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 09, 2009 10:59 PM

Well, I've been studying the Belgian Political parties (with Elections nearing us in June), the Greens in particular because their PoV is almost opposite to my own. My Goodness, you cannot believe how arrogant they are. They basically tell their to supporters to "Go and Multiply themselves" as stated in the Bible lmao.

Anyway, back to Liberalism, hmm?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted April 09, 2009 10:59 PM

I'm pro-environment as well. But I find most greens to be repulsive.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted April 09, 2009 10:59 PM

Quote:
Slavery isn't voluntary. Choosing to do drugs is.
I know, but that wasn't the point, I was talking about the "others' reaction" (such as the government, or those 'outside'). If it is "who cares? at least we make lots of money out of it!" it is very similar to the slavery one -- that is, they do not care whether they are slaves or not, as long as it gives them money. Same with the other. They do not care at all about them (when they are junkies), as long as it gives them money.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted April 09, 2009 11:08 PM

"Who cares what they do to themselves!" =/= "Who cares what they do to others!"
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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posted April 09, 2009 11:14 PM

I've created separate thread about Socialism and Green Ideologies. Posts about them can be posted there
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baklava
baklava


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posted April 09, 2009 11:16 PM
Edited by baklava at 23:17, 09 Apr 2009.

Greens have little or nothing to do with the hippy culture I'm afraid.

EDIT
Mkay. No more spam here then.
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