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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: About Politics: Greens
Thread: About Politics: Greens This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 24, 2009 03:03 PM

So take away murder and put something else in.

The idea is to prevent those situations from happening. Taxes prevent nothing. The damage done can't be compensated by a bit of worthless money.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 24, 2009 03:13 PM

Which is what he doesn't get: you don't want to make people pay for the pollution they are reponsible for, you don't want that pollution in the first place. That's why a tax is foolish, simple and pretty easy to see, actually, even for a liberal.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 24, 2009 03:40 PM

Quote:
he damage done can't be compensated by a bit of worthless money.
Actually, the whole point is that, yes, it can. Trade-offs.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 24, 2009 03:44 PM

Now I'm curious. You mean, the tax money can freeze back the polecaps?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 24, 2009 03:45 PM

No, of course not, but the melting of the ice caps doesn't have an infinite cost.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 24, 2009 04:10 PM

Mvassilev, with all respect: I think you've lost it. Completely. You are writing such a truckload of utter nonsense, I simply cannot take you serious anymore.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 24, 2009 05:43 PM

I don't get this infinite cost you mention.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted April 24, 2009 05:47 PM

The problem with carbon tax is that it doesn't guarantee reduced emissions in any way. If the carbon tax manages to lessen the use of fossil fuels, their price would just decline in a way that the consumption would rise to it's original value. Cap and trade is far more efficient, although I have problems with the way it has been implemented in EU.

But we do use carbon tax in Finland as a "treetop cutter". It only applies if the carbon tax exceeds a certain percentage of the company's revenue.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 24, 2009 09:46 PM

Quote:
Nope, because if it's a mafia killing, then the mafia is the killer - so it's not "multiple" persons.
LOL what? How is that different than a 'corporation', a 'company' or the whole 'society'?

"The Mafia" is of course, like "Microsoft". It doesn't mean that "Microsoft" is "one person" aka "Bill Gates" (well... 'was' anyway)
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 24, 2009 11:10 PM

Doomforge:
The thing is, when pollution is emitted, they are imposing a cost upon other people. So, obviously, they must pay for this cost. However, it does not follow that they must cease their activity - just that they must pay for the cost. They should only have to cease their activity (in the case with externalities) if the cost is infinite - that is, there is no way they can pay for the cost. But it isn't.

Minion:
Quote:
If the carbon tax manages to lessen the use of fossil fuels, their price would just decline in a way that the consumption would rise to it's original value.
No, it wouldn't. If consumption would rise to its original value, then the price before tax would also rise to the original value.

Quote:
Cap and trade is far more efficient, although I have problems with the way it has been implemented in EU.
I like cap-and-trade. I think it could potentially work. The problem that I have with it is that it is more bureaucratic than a carbon tax. The government would have to keep track of who has how many pollution credits, etc. Plus, it would be able to fudge the numbers or give out free credits.

TheDeath:
Quote:
How is that different than a 'corporation', a 'company' or the whole 'society'?
From corporation or company - it isn't. From society - society isn't really a formal institution/organization the way a company or the Mafia is.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 25, 2009 12:06 AM

Quote:
From corporation or company - it isn't. From society - society isn't really a formal institution/organization the way a company or the Mafia is.
Why not? Reason?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 25, 2009 01:02 AM

Because one can interact discretely with representatives of a corporation or the Mafia. Society, though, has no such formal structure. You can make deals/contracts with a company or the Mafia (although the latter isn't always reliable), but not with society. Etc.

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, though.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 25, 2009 10:52 AM

Oh, so you really DO believe EVERYTHING can be controlled by taxes unless it's technically impossible?

Well, I really beg to differ, but nvm.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 25, 2009 11:27 AM

How about a no-comdom tax for everyone, especially for those in the pleasure industry?

AIDS and VDs may be a problem, but having a sexual contact with a deseased won't necessarily be bad. Moreover, the Church, an important societal factor, is against using condoms - in fact is forbidding their use for their believers.

A no-condom tax would do the trick nicely.
People could just have fun without any second thoughts, after all they would pay their due for not using a condom, if they would desire so, for whatever the reason.
Also, the to be expected higher AIDS rate would up the demand for a cure which would make the undertaking of finding one more profitable, upping the probability that indeed a cure would be found, eventually, while the taxes could be used to overhaul hospitals and so on.

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baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted April 25, 2009 01:18 PM

Quote:
having a sexual contact with a deseased

When I first read it, I thought it said "deceased".
...
What has been thought cannot be un-thought.
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is. When you ain't got no
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