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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: About Politics: Socialism
Thread: About Politics: Socialism This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT»
Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 09, 2009 11:13 PM

About Politics: Socialism

The thread to discuss the Social-Democrat Ideology. What is Socialism? Why follow or not follow it? This is the thread to discuss it!

A little definition according to wiki:

Quote:
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equality for all individuals, with a fair or egalitarian method of compensation


Let the fighting Discussion begin. TheDeath, eat your heart out!
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baklava
baklava


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Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted April 09, 2009 11:19 PM

Just social-democrat or are authoritarian forms such as communism included here too?
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money,
you got the blues."
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 09, 2009 11:22 PM

Yes, they are.
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tyraxor
tyraxor


Adventuring Hero
Ruler of the burning Desert
posted April 16, 2009 07:25 PM

About communism: don't follow. The idea of communism isn't bad. The opinion that everyone is equal is a good one. But the truth learns us that communistic countries turn into a great mess.
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted April 16, 2009 07:47 PM

Tyraxor: They failed at actually doing the plan and made a new overclass while killing the old one, in some cases they did not mange to even kill the old overclass.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 16, 2009 08:47 PM

Quote:
The idea of communism isn't bad. The opinion that everyone is equal is a good one.

It's also quite unnatural.  Thermodynamically unfavorable, if you will.

Hence:
Quote:
But the truth learns us that communistic countries turn into a great mess.


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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted April 16, 2009 08:54 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The idea of communism isn't bad. The opinion that everyone is equal is a good one.

It's also quite unnatural.  Thermodynamically unfavorable, if you will.




not unnatural but rather unappealing. Its like instead of having a country with some winners and some losers you just have a country with some folks. and thats just perfect communism which is for all reasonable purposes is near impossible.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 16, 2009 09:00 PM

Quote:
not unnatural but rather unappealing.

No, unnatural.  Every observable quantity in nature is subject to statistical distribution.  Quantities describing people are no different.

Expecting everyone to be the same makes about as much scientific and mathematical sense as expecting to get heads every time you flip a coin.
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tyraxor
tyraxor


Adventuring Hero
Ruler of the burning Desert
posted April 16, 2009 10:39 PM

It is hard indeed, but it goes wrong when just one party has all the power. Dictators easily become addicted to might and power. And than they don't find it important anymore what the population wants or says. The population rebels against the communistic leaders and a civil war is born(well, maybe thats a bit emphasized).
To found a system where everybody is equal is very difficult, if not impossible. There's always one who'll become leader.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 16, 2009 10:44 PM

Sadly, I have to agree with C to that. Human Nature simply cannot strive towards equality, and THAT's the biggest flaw of Communism. It's only good on Paper. Communism is an Intentionally good Idea, but the Road of Hell is paved with Good Intentions
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted April 16, 2009 10:47 PM

Also, communism has absolutely no way of doing any kind of economic calculation.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 16, 2009 10:49 PM

That's because Economy is unimportant to them. After all, everyone is a Worker in the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. (no bosses, Businessmen etc...)


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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted April 16, 2009 10:53 PM

Not only that, but they must either assume that all labor is of equal value, or make arbitrary distinctions in pay. This, of course, leads to problems.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 16, 2009 11:02 PM

Indeed. Labour and Economy needs some kind of hierarchy to be effective.

Communism, in short, is a Fairytail without Happy Ending. Something like Hamlet I suppose; it ends after everyone is dead.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 16, 2009 11:04 PM

They don't necessarily need a hierarchy (although in certain industries it's necessary), but they need a price system.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 16, 2009 11:15 PM

Whatever, it doesn't work
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted April 16, 2009 11:20 PM

Good Lord.  Someone mentions Socialism and the conversation starts steering towards those pinko, godless, heathen commies.  

Let's talk about good socialism please.  You know, the kind that is the envy of Western Europe.

Start with Denmark.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 17, 2009 12:33 AM

Gootch:
Quote:
Start with Denmark.
Denmark has one of the freest economies in the world. Sorry, try again.

Father:
You know, there are two kinds of equality: equality before the law and economic equality. I'm for the first - I'm certainly not for the second.

Quote:
Captitalism is like the parent that allows a fussy child to do it his way. "Fine, you do what you think is best and prove to me that your method is right" Yeah, I think we all have had enough of that proof.
What's that supposed to mean?
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 17, 2009 01:17 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Captitalism is like the parent that allows a fussy child to do it his way. "Fine, you do what you think is best and prove to me that your method is right" Yeah, I think we all have had enough of that proof.
What's that supposed to mean?

Cryptic, I agree.  Besides which, the viewpoint that the role of government should be like the role of a parent in any way, shape or form is one with which I disagree wholeheartedly.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted April 17, 2009 01:20 AM

Well the government is supposed to be a collective manifestation of the people's opinion. Thats what I'd assume. After all each and every individual can't go around enforcing their values. it would make sense to create a centralized facet of the people... Although government seems to stray from that.
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