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| Thread: Return of the random upgrade tree | |
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 15, 2009 12:32 AM |
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Return of the random upgrade tree
I would like to propose that Heroes 6 falls back to the Heroes 2 route of most units not having upgrades. this would eliminate some problems where non-upgraded troops being unable to join your army (as you pass their dwelling) also it would allow for some upgrades to be much more valuable.
Take heroes 2 for example the Warlock in heroes 2
you had:
Cave for centaurs (evil ones not the good ones that currently exist)
Crypt for gargoyls
Nest for Griffens
Maze for Minotaurs
(UPG) UPG Maze for Minotaur Kings (these were much better then Minotaurs)
Swamp for Hydras
Green Tower for Green Dragons
(UPG) Red Tower for Red Dragons
(UPG) Black Tower for Black Dragons
Most castles had 3-4 upgrades out of 7 troops. This felt more natural, and the developers didn't have to come out with silly upgrades to troops for the sake of having upgrades.
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jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 17, 2009 06:44 PM |
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hmmm...I've heard this consideration a feqw times before here (or read), but still not sure if it would be good. It would be harder to balance wouldn't it?
aand, for one instance, i would certainly NOT like the centaurs being evil again, yet I think gargoyles would better fit into a darker theme than into a neutral/light one.
but it brings me to another, similar idea...what about random alternative units?
So that, for some tiers, about 2-3 per faction could, like in H4, be chosen between different units. That would give more difference here without filling HOMM6 with too many units, like 2 per every tier (which I would also support, but many here have allready objected on some threads, if remember correctly). So, for example, take the Haven of HoMM6, it could than have a lineup like this:
1. Peasant (Conscript/Brute)
2. Archer (Marksman/Crossbowman)
3. Footman (Squire/Vindicator) OR Pikeman (Helbardier/Town Guard)
4. Griffin (Imperial Griffin/ Battle Griffin)
5. Priest (Inquisitor/Zealot) OR Hunter of Evil (Crusader/Witchunter)
6. Chevalier (Paladin/ Champion)
7. Angel (Archangel/Seraphim)
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted April 18, 2009 01:49 AM |
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Hmmm... I hold the complete opposite stance. I like the alternatives in TotE. Variety is always better in my opinion, and having tactical choices between two upgrades makes things fun. Not all of the upgrades are very well balanced with one another, but a better solution to getting rid of the system entirely would simply be to test it more and make them better balanced.
Not only do I like the alternative upgrades, but I enjoyed how in Heroes 4 you actually had to pick a monster for a tier instead of getting both monsters. A lot of people complained about it because they couldn't get anything, but being able to get everything isn't fun because then there's no customization. There's simply a static path that you follow that never changes.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 18, 2009 04:44 AM |
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The problem with Heroes 4 was when you took over other castles and they had built differently then you had then you were stuck with a mixed army instead of a combined strong army.
like if when you play H3 multiplayer and Red gets two castles but player Blue gets a castle and a stronghold. Red will have a definate edge.
I definately enjoy the ability to upgrade to multiple different troops and I like the way they did it in H5, but it just seems like to much, I almost always go with the same upgrade anyways so having two types means nothing.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted April 19, 2009 01:16 AM |
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i've always figured that a mix of h2 h4 and h5 would be best
stuff like this could exist. but it would have to be used sparingly... i actually think that some of these combinations are too ridiculous.
Double upgrade
upgrade then alternative
Alternatives with one having another upgrade.
Quote:
aand, for one instance, i would certainly NOT like the centaurs being evil again, yet I think gargoyles would better fit into a darker theme than into a neutral/light one.
That was the h2 creature lineup for warlock not what he proposes for homm6
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 19, 2009 01:35 AM |
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Nah, if you have H4 style exclusions both creatures have to have the same number of upgrade levels (no upgrades, one upgrade level, or two levels, though one creature having a single upgrade, while the other has two alternate upgrades works), else it becomes too hard to balance.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 19, 2009 01:44 AM |
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My suggestion: every creature has at least one upgrade. Beyond that, there may be creature choices, branched upgrade paths, or just nothing.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Knut_Are_M
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 02, 2009 03:45 PM |
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you can make the dwelling have a higher cost and growthrate, when the unit is not upgradeable. You can keep balance that way.
Off topic: i wish homm6 will have 1.5-2 times as costly to purchase all your units as your city earns when it is fully buildt.
so that players are less screwed over by not getting a correct second city.
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LordGodric
Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
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posted May 09, 2009 08:15 PM |
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Quote:
1. Peasant (Conscript/Brute)
2. Archer (Marksman/Crossbowman)
3. Footman (Squire/Vindicator) OR Pikeman (Helbardier/Town Guard)
4. Griffin (Imperial Griffin/ Battle Griffin)
5. Priest (Inquisitor/Zealot) OR Hunter of Evil (Crusader/Witchunter)
6. Chevalier (Paladin/ Champion)
7. Angel (Archangel/Seraphim)
I think would be better:
1 conscript -> pikeman
2 Archer -> Marskman / crosbowman
3 Swordman -> Man at Arms -> Squire
4 Griffin -> Royal Griffin
5 Priest -> Zealot -> Inquisitor
6 Cavalier -> Champion / Paladin
7 Angel -> Archangel
some creatures has only a upg, others have an upg and a alternative, or a upg and a third lvl upg...
other exampple
1 Pixie -> Sprite / Dryad
2 Centaur -> Centaur Protector
3 Woodelf Archer -> Ranger / Sharpshooter
4 Druid -> High Druid -> Druid Elder
5 Unichorn -> Battle Unicorn -> War Unichorn
6 Treant -> Ancient Treant
7 Green Dragon -> Gold Dragon
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