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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 30, 2009 07:08 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:20, 02 May 2009.
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How else would the weaker players win 
Edit: We started a game with jinxer, my inferno vs dwarves. I was in middle waiting for him when he told me he had attacked me and was waiting on me. I couldn't see him and even more strange was the fact that I could move around like nothing happened.. Nobody had mods or other custom maps in. What the heck..?
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/808/elvindesync.jpg
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 30, 2009 11:49 PM |
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I am amazed at how UNBALANCED this map setup truely is..
For example.. in the previous game attempt with Elvin.. I had ZERO mana arts in my market.. and even with advanced Enlightenment I was only able to achieve 5 knowledge. So would have been a battle of 50 mana vs. 200 mana... soon as I am outta mana.. I am sitting duck... How is that balanced? And on top of that.. there is only 1 guild.. and no other ways to get spells... So if I am not offered cleanse or Immunity... then how to I remove Puppet/Frenzy? I become like an Orc team.. just a sitting duck. And EVEN if I was lucky enough to get cleanse ... I could only cleanse a few times then I would be outta mana and then he can puppet me and I have no counter...
This map needs to have some random artifacts laying around... like 1 relic 3 minor and 3 major artifacts.
With the current setup.. it boils down to who is more lucky with market artifacts and level ups... and if you get real lucky with level ups and dont need to use memory mentor then you can afford more of the purchaces levels.. but like in my recent game with elven I had to use the mentor so much just to get the decent skills that had no money left to buy more levels..
I know I am an amateur to this arena thing.. but I honestly dont see how this proves anything about players battle skills.. when you have very little control of how you are able to build your hero etc.
Just my 2 cents....
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted May 01, 2009 12:37 AM |
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Zenithale (Talanar) losses Elvin (Shak')
Very good fight! 
Elvin (Erling) wins Zenithale (Zoltan)
Slaughter. No spell to counter Haste+RM. And Storm wind +Dwarf luck were too good.
Well done Elvin!
Final result 2-0.
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 01, 2009 12:48 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 00:53, 01 May 2009.
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It's not as simple as that. The mana part does worry me a bit but seriously dwarves aren't exactly weaklings - so many possibilities. Dwarven luck, might skills, tap runes, intelligence and certainly not both light/destructive as you tried. Inferno still has pathetic power so a puppeted unit would act every three centuries and would not even get a second action. You can can still use runes with the remaining units.
If you worry about lack of cleansing there are always the spell shrines that can offer it to you. Yes you may not get some of the things you wish but overall it's not one-sided.
Also.. Heroes skill does not come only in fighting but also preparation, leveling, making the optimal choices. It takes a LOT of skill to master arena - not just tactical - and no it's not all luck. Play Sq or towerlord 10 times and tell me how many you'll win if any. As for building your hero I still believe the odds are you will get most of the skills you wish with some careful play.
What I do not like though are the insane numbers of tier 1 and tier 2. Obviously not all factions benefit the same from them and then there's neclace of bloody claw, ring of vitality, battle frenzy and vitality that can make the one who gets them super strong.. Very biased towards say sylvan as opposed to dungeon. Also with those kind of armies a +2 knowledge booster might be nice to have.
I almost forgot  Here are the replays, very enjoyable games. Although the second was a bit broken, zenithale lacked the right counter spells and my dwarven luck was pretty helpful either way.
See you on the battlefield another day
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 01, 2009 01:15 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 01:20, 01 May 2009.
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Quote:
Heroes skill does not come only in fighting but also preparation, leveling, making the optimal choices. It takes a LOT of skill to master arena - not just tactical.
Well I would be tempted to agree with you here... HOWEVER... the player does not have the freedom to prepare as easily as you are trying to make it sound. And making optimal choices.. there again.. all boils down to wether or not those choices are available to you.. For example if I desperately need dwarven luck and I spend 16k at mentor trying to get offered it.. and never do.. well then now I am not able to buy those couple crital level ups that my opponent was able to because he was lucky enough to get offered the skills he wanted the first time. If however there was little spots on map that had all the skills availble for you to pick how you wanted to build your hero... then after you had the base skills you wanted.. then hit the exp building.. then NOW I would AGREE that preparation and HOW you strategically built your hero would be fully in your control and the outcome would be all your deciding etc. But as it is now.. its a crap shoot... and since money is sooo tight... having to waste money at mentor because you was unlucky throws the balance way off. And as elvin mentioned.. NEED more knowlde as default.. unless you add some random loose aritafacts around.
Using our last game we didnt get to fight as an example.. I am not even sure how it was possible that you had 20 Knowledge and able to buy all 5 upgrade levels... and have 12 attack and 5 defense and 7 power!! My stats were like 8-5-7-5 and I had + 2 sword and +1 defense arty and advanced enlightenment... so even if you was to buy the + 6 knowldge helm.. how do you get to 20 knowledge.. cause oibviously most of your stats on level up when to attack since you was at 12...
And about the puppet only accting every 3 turns etc... puppets main strength isnt in the ability to use the unit agasint themself... but more in the fact that they cannot use the unit AND MORE important.. is that you can attack that unit over and over with no retaliation.. so at end of battle just puppet and render unit useless... and 1 imp could slowely kill the stack no matter how big.. and then repuppet etc.. with 200 mana vs. 50 mana.. there is no counter.. thus a sitting duck.
My goal here is not to argue... just debating the issues..
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 01, 2009 01:27 AM |
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Hey do you mind reposting those here? This is a report thread, let's not derail it.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 01, 2009 03:54 AM |
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I am OUT! Either replace me or mark ALL my games as Forfiet... Sorry I entered without understanding how it all worked.. if I had played a game on the map first, I never would have joined.
Sorry again for any trouble this might cause.. I will look before I leap next time.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted May 01, 2009 06:18 AM |
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Edited by sq79 at 06:21, 01 May 2009.
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Quote:
I am OUT! Either replace me or mark ALL my games as Forfiet... Sorry I entered without understanding how it all worked.. if I had played a game on the map first, I never would have joined.
Sorry again for any trouble this might cause.. I will look before I leap next time.
The problem is you did not play a game on the map first before you kick off the first game...
The thing is, you can never configure the perfect hero every game here like in normal maps, spending 16k for a skill, u can buy a full level 4 or 5 stack, that's the decision you need to make. level ups or troops.
The map is balanced in such a way, a super hero with lesser troops, might not beat a normal hero with more troops but lesser stacks.
You can't expect to beat elvin when he has played alot more times in this map and you did not looked at the map at all before starting 
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted May 01, 2009 02:00 PM |
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Woow, many events
Arcax and Elvin seem to be doing very well in this tournament, managing to defeat some veterans  .
And then there is the drama of Jinxer, though I didn't exactly understand what the final result was...
Quitting like that is very bad, I understand your frustration for not getting the right skills, but other times you'll get them. The best thing to do, is put your pride away, accept your losses, learn from them and move further (towards victories).
Anyway it's up to you ...
PS: Btw, there are ways to get what you want, it's not all about the luck, you can make your own faith 
Jinxer, after reading your complaints more closely, I realize you truly need this arena experience to become a better player.
1. Mana problems, just aim for some of the following skills :
Intelligence, Graduate, Secrets of Destruction, Arcane Excellence
2. Frenzy -> Teleport/ Magic Immunity ... you'll surely have one of them
3. Puppet Master and no Dispel, just kill your opponent with the other stacks. As Elvin pointed out, Inferno's puppets are not so dangerous. Lack of dispel was one of the main issues for me when I first started playing arena, and actually asked zilo to place free cleansing scroll on map, but after getting experienced I found many ways to fight against dark without it, so decided not to include the scroll after all, because the extra randomness is better
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted May 01, 2009 02:04 PM |
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Quote:
I am OUT! Either replace me or mark ALL my games as Forfiet... Sorry I entered without understanding how it all worked.. if I had played a game on the map first, I never would have joined.
Sorry again for any trouble this might cause.. I will look before I leap next time.
Jinxer and I had a game, mine Stronghold versus his Academy. After first round he quitted. I understand that luck plays a big role here but giving up just after 1st game is not a solution.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 01, 2009 02:49 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 16:22, 01 May 2009.
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lol Joker is going out where he should have been in the first place.
Maybe he wants us to beg him to return but u didn`t guess this time
This map is so balanced it is just your limited knowledge of the game playing only one map and with a couple of players doesn`t allow u to fully comprehend the beauty of this map.
I bet my cheater reputation (hehe) that if u choose to play the best hero for u and restart how many times u want to get perfect spells, arties and runes ( u know how ) and play against Bandit (from HL)or Towerlord and they will still beat. They won`t beat u - they will crash u because u lack in tactics and in strategy a lot.
This tourney is not for chickens. You are the lizard that didn`t want to jump from the cliff and stayed to play on the ground with his friends while the other flew in the sky and conquered new worlds.You were lost somewhere in evolution from lizards to birds and your squeeking from the mudland is getting on everyones` nerves - after all bird songs should not be mingled with lowlife.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 01, 2009 04:30 PM |
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Quote:
and your squeeking from the mudland is getting on everyones` nerves
Yes... definetly. Now guess who I'm referring to .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 01, 2009 09:48 PM |
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Did you find a replacement? If not.. I will donate the 20 mins per match and press auto combat just to not screw the tourny up.. Forfieting is not fair to give free pass to some players.. So if ya got a replacement thats fine since I already said I would step down.. but if not.. I will donate my time since was my fault I didnt do my research before I joined...
And so Elvin doesnt jump down my throat.. I need to add a REPORT here to make this post offical.
Arcax-(Orcs) WINS Jinxer-(Acadamy)
2nd game to come.....
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted May 01, 2009 10:24 PM |
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Quote:
Arcax-(Orcs) WINS Jinxer-(Acadamy)
2nd game to come.....
WTF? o_O
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 01, 2009 11:50 PM |
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I think he considers the first game a loss
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 01, 2009 11:56 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 00:03, 02 May 2009.
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Which part didnt make sense?
Its simple.. If tower has not already replaced me.. then I will stay in tourny to fullfil my obligation wether I enjoy it or not.. so I dont ruin the tourny for everyone else.. I havent got anything to lose except time.. This setup proves nothing really.. except some people are inheritly luckier then others lol... so why not enlighten myself..
@Arcax --- so since we already played the first match of our 2 matches.. and I conceeded the first match.. that makes you the winner of match #1
Not trying to cause waves here people.. just trying to do whats right to not ruin the tourny for rest of people... I can be the go with the flow kinda guy ( Wether I like it or not ) See you all on the battle field.. Come get some EASY points!
Again I will remove this post if its clogging up the report thread after it is seen.. just didnt know best place to put it.
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted May 01, 2009 11:57 PM |
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Edited by Arcax at 23:58, 01 May 2009.
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*cough, cough*
EDIT: Sorry Im totally confused, are you quitting or staying or... ?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 02, 2009 12:14 AM |
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Chill out Jinxer brah. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, but it's not like you're playing for money. Just try to have fun.
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted May 02, 2009 10:00 AM |
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I don't have replacement, and it would be perfect if you could play your games.
The map is not rich in artifacts, spells, money for a reason: in order for you to learn how to manage with what random gives you. Of course there are times when you're going to lose because of unluck, or luck of the opponent, but that happens in full games also
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 02, 2009 11:14 AM |
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Have not seen Ruby, zamfir, skele or felunio in ages. Where are you hiding guys?
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