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| Thread: Mixing Conflux and Academy? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted May 05, 2009 04:50 PM |
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Yes,I actually like your ideas (well,just with a few changes of mine)
But I don't like the whole idea of combinating Academy with Conflux,they should be single factions
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 05, 2009 10:48 PM |
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Quote:
Spirit->Arcane Spirit/Wisp
Air Elemental->Storm Elemental/Smog Elemental
Water Elemental->Ice Elemental/Wave Elemental
Fire Elemental->Electric Elemental/Flame Elemental
Earth Elemental->Magma elemental/Mineral Elemental
Psichyc Elemental->Astral Elemental/Magic Elemental
Fire Bird->Phoenix/Thunder Bird
*Puts head in hands* It's suggestions like this that led me to come up with this concept in the first place. Firstly, elementals don't belong at different levels, that was the biggest failing of the Conflux in H3, and secondly, nowhere in any universe will you find an element called 'psychic' (even if 'light' and 'dark' exist as such in the H5 universe, though I don't see elementals of them), so a 'psychic elemental' makes no sense.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 05, 2009 11:40 PM |
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Edited by Oz at 23:47, 05 May 2009.
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Well thats why I said Razor was right with the Mind Elemental. So who cares if there are some new kind of elementals? Why not?
Putting the Conflux into a faction with such a solid lineup as Academy is just doesn't seems good. I mean how would it look like, what would you change? You remove Golems and replace them with Earth, Genies to Air, Mages to Fire, and Naga/Rakasha to Water? Those creature are all excellent creatures which cannot really be raplaced without 80% of the fanbase shouting words.
The elementals don't have to be weaker or stronger but they need to be given a level. The Dwellings can have the same requirements and the grow rates could be equal, they could all be lvl 3.5 creatures. Most of the units would be casters and this kind of town would really provide a completely different gameplay. I don't like the Conflux as a town but I see so much possibility in them, puting them into any town would destroy a classic faction and make the elementals into boring creatures.
Edit: By the way putting them into an already existing faction wouldn't solve their lvl "problem" alone, unless you want to do it like they did this in h4.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 06, 2009 12:22 AM |
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Quote:
and secondly, nowhere in any universe will you find an element called 'psychic' (even if 'light' and 'dark' exist as such in the H5 universe, though I don't see elementals of them), so a 'psychic elemental' makes no sense.
Well, you know, the reason why there were Psychic Elementals in the Conflux was well-explained in Heroes Chronicles: Masters of the Elements.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted May 06, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Well, you know, the reason why there were Psychic Elementals in the Conflux was well-explained in Heroes Chronicles: Masters of the Elements.
NWC threw a Christmas party and everybody was drunk?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 06, 2009 01:07 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:08, 06 May 2009.
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It seems that I've been more than a bit misunderstood here, so I'll try again. When I suggested mixing Conflux and Academy, I wasn't talking about the H3 Conflux (I detested the blasted thing, it was far-and-away my least favourite town), I was actually talking about the suggestion I raised here (about half-way down the page) about each creature having four 'elemental' upgrades, which would seem to deviate from the norm, but since each town would only be able to focus on two elements (one of earth/air, one of fire/water) it would be little different than normal.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 06, 2009 08:05 AM |
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You mean every creature in the Academy would have elemental upgrades?
Gremlin->Earth Gremlin/Air Gremlin
Gargoyle->Stone Gargoyle/Wind Gargoyle
Golem->Iron Golem/What would you call an air elemental golem?
Mage->Fire Mage/Water Mage
....
Sorry but this seems even worse. The basic concept of alternate upgrades is to have an offensive and a defensive version, this sometimes varries like one upgrade can shot while the other has strong melee, or they have a different theme like one gremlin repairs our own war machines, while the other sabotages the enemy's.
If every creature would have elemental upgrades we would see a game where your normal grey units turn into red/blue, or brown/white color. Now that'd be really boring, and every upgrade would have somekind of elemental bonus, and for example how would you portray a Wind Gargoyle? A gargoyle made out of wind? Well that's not a gargoyle, maybe a gargoyle who is immune to air spells? Nah.. Maybe one that is even faster?
Yet again this still wouldn't solve the lvl difference of the elementals cause there is only one 7th creature, and there would be one more pair of elements than the other. Or if you mean it like every castle would have these upgrades, than can you imagine how many names would be made up? Universe Champion, Ocean Efreet, Mineral Dwarf, Lava Pixie
I'm better off with Psichyc Elemental any day than water based Inferno creatures.
Besides as Cepheus said 3DO-NWC explained it well and it is something that actually belongs to the original storyline(even if it was an altered version). Honestly I don't really like this dragon god thing that came up with h5, I mean dragons are boring and so cliche. Why not just return to the original? I don't even remember if there were specific gods in h3, surely there were in M&M but H3 was solid without any explaination, I never questioned things like Psychic Elemental cause they had a cool defense animation, and even if they wouldn't, there must be someone who likes the idea. Like I read on the Forge site long ago "Demons are actually aliens", but we didn't need to know that to play and call them demons.
As I said I hated h3 Conflux, but it had a feeling, and the only reason why it didn't had an usual lineup was bacuse it was only in 1 game, and those four elementals only appeared as neutrals before. They put it together well, and I don't see any big problem with the creatures.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 06, 2009 10:34 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:01, 06 May 2009.
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Okay, to expound a bit, 'elemental' upgrades don't turn the creatures into elementals, the 'elements' themselves are a metaphor of sorts for the general direction of the upgrades, ie.
Air - speed and initiative
Fire - attack and damage
Earth - defence and strength
Water - special abilites
In this sense, an air Gremlin (Breeze Gremlin) would get higher initiative and speed, or perhaps a double shot ability, a fire Gremlin (Ash Gremlin) would get Sabotage and/or an explosive attack, an earth Gremlin (Dune Gremlin) would almost certainly get a No Melee Penalty bonus and extra hp, and a water Gremlin (Mist Gremlin) would likely get Repair and a few extra shots. I'm also considering the possibility of exempting living creatures like the Gremlin and Mage from having 'elemental' upgrades to restrict it to constructs and summons only.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 06, 2009 11:28 AM |
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Now that sounds better, but this isn't anything like elementals. We would have the same concept with one upg. focusing on melee, while the other focusing on ranged attack, we would just call them names that have to do with elements.
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 09, 2009 03:44 AM |
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Hmmmmmmmmmm. Well this elemental idea might work as a spell system but not as a way to upgrade creatures. The title does say "conflux", so this suggests the idea of combining the academy with the only conflux really to exist in the series (HOMM III conflux).
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bacax1
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 23, 2009 01:24 PM |
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smvuy
Known Hero
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posted May 23, 2009 03:26 PM |
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if only you mana to get it right.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 23, 2009 03:34 PM |
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Quote:
NWC threw a Christmas party and everybody was drunk?
Quite possibly, especially considering the number of people who tend to throw Christmas parties between June and September.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted May 23, 2009 06:28 PM |
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Its a good idea but then I would prefer it to be built from some kind of structure, like Nature had in H4.
Like a building called "Elemental Rift" or something.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 24, 2009 02:36 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:13, 24 May 2009.
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Okay, I have finally completed my Conflux/Academy Faction (names only, the abilities will come later)
T1. Guard > Warrior / Archer
T2. Novice > [Ash/Mist] Novice / [Dust/Breeze] Novice
T3. Wisp > [Flamen/Nix] / [Oread/Windwhirl]
T4. Alumnus > [Ember/Rain] Mage / [Stone/Wind] Mage
T5. Magewisp > [Ifreet/Marid] / [Ghul/Djinn]
T6. Archmage > [Devastator/Ressurector] / [Sentinel/Levitor]
T7. Roc > [Phoenix/Huma] / [Garuda/Thunderbird]
those names in square brackets ([]) are creatures which are deametrically opposed (fire/water and earth/air) and which can't appear in the same town.
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jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 24, 2009 10:38 AM |
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What has a golem to do with a whisp?!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 24, 2009 11:21 AM |
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Golem, what Golem, I can't see a Golem in there. Thanks for bringing that point up, I guess it doesn't really work does it, a statue in the middle of a line-up of wisps?
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 24, 2009 03:01 PM |
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Exactly that's the problem.
As I said before Tower has a great lineup, if you mix it with conflux the result is a golem kicked out by some wisp creature, there is simply not enough space.
Golems and titans were always part of the Tower since H2, mages had arch mages as upgrades, and rocs doesn't belong here either.
Besides as I said before this isn't an conflux at all, the units aren't elementals, they are just themed after certain elements.
Also?
1. Walker/Shooter
2. Caster
3. Flyer
4. Caster
5. Flyer
6. Caster
7. Flyer
Not to mention all the flyers are somewhat spirit like which makes them sometwhat magical. This is just too much magic, too much physically weak creature.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 24, 2009 10:16 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:55, 24 May 2009.
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Quote:
Golems and titans were always part of the Tower since H2, mages had arch mages as upgrades, and rocs doesn't belong here either.
might I remind you that in H1-2 that is exactly where Rocs were. As for dumping the Golems, I've never been entirely happy with having two sorts of magical creatures in a town (Constructs and Summons), so I decided to dump one, and figured that spirits were more magical.
Quote:
Besides as I said before this isn't an conflux at all, the units aren't elementals, they are just themed after certain elements.
That was (from my point of view) the whole point, to make a town that was elemental without featuring actual elementals, simce those end up looking like the H3 Conflux, eg, crap.
Quote:
1. Walker/Shooter
2. Caster
3. Flyer
4. Caster
5. Flyer
6. Caster
7. Flyer
You may have a point here  .
Quote:
Not to mention all the flyers are somewhat spirit like which makes them sometwhat magical. This is just too much magic, too much physically weak creature.
Two spirits is exactly what Academy has. As for being too magical, might I remind you that there is exactly one non-magical creature in the current academy lineup, and that's level 1 as well (Gargoyles, Golems and Colossi are as magical as Djinn and Rakshasa).
As Oz has helpfully noted, my lineup does seem to have rather a lot of specialist creatures, and so I have decided to redo my lineup, hopefully to remove a little of the problem.
T1. Novice > [Ash/Mist] Novice / [Dust/Breeze] Novice
T2. Mageguard > Magewarden / Magewarrior
T3. Magebow > Sureshot / Mageshot
T4. [Ember/Rain] Alumnus / [Pebble/Wind] Alumnus > [Fire/Water] Mage / [Earth/Air] Mage
T5. Magewisp > [Ifreet/Marid] / [Ghul/Djinn]
T6. Archmage > [Devastator/Ressurector] / [Sentinel/Levitor]
T7. Roc > [Phoenix/Huma] / [Garuda/Thunderbird]
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 25, 2009 03:13 PM |
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Yeah Rocs were there in H2 but never after that. They belonged more to the Barbarian town as free giants birds, now they might have a chance in the conflux(and by this I mean my conflux lineup).
Even if the game had elemental based creatures that dtill wouldn't ditch out elementals, they'd be in the game as neutrals anyway cause that's the way since H2(excluding AB).
I think the elemental town is a good idea, I didn't liked playing it but looking back it was a good town and an interesting one especially if we'd did it my way.
This is ofcourse personal preference.
No they aren't, they are magically created creatures with magic immunities, they are created trough mechanics and alchemy but that doesn't make them magical creatures any more than other mythological beasts.
By magical I meant incorporeal creatures such as Genies(even if they don't have the ability), creatures with magical body, the ones that either can cast magic or has a magcal special. Rakasha is a warrior creature even if they're called "ancient spirits".
Your lineup barely changed, you added a random spell archer and made the walker remain a walker. My main problem with it was that it had three human mages all on different tiers. By the way what's up with the unupagraded Alumnus pairs, they're supposed to be only one of them, not?
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