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| Thread: Mixing Conflux and Academy? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 25, 2009 11:59 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 00:00, 26 May 2009.
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Yeah Rocs were there in H2 but never after that.
So what?
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I think the elemental town is a good idea, I didn't liked playing it but looking back it was a good town and an interesting one especially if we'd did it my way.
You mean the way you didn't like playing it (because that's what your idea is, more-or-less a copy of the H3 conflux, except that the Fairy is replaced by a 'Spirit')?
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No they aren't, they are magically created creatures with magic immunities, they are created trough mechanics and alchemy but that doesn't make them magical creatures any more than other mythological beasts.
Okay, let's see here, the Gargoyles are 'elemental', the Golems are 'magic-proof', and the Titan (if not the Colossus) uses lightning. Really non-magical?
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By magical I meant incorporeal creatures such as Genies(even if they don't have the ability), creatures with magical body, the ones that either can cast magic or has a magcal special. Rakasha is a warrior creature even if they're called "ancient spirits".
I only have one now, not two
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Your lineup barely changed, you added a random spell archer and made the walker remain a walker.
I now have two walkers and an archer, because Novices are walkers as well.
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My main problem with it was that it had three human mages all on different tiers.
That's because I wanted to give it a 'magical school/university' feel, not a 'bunch of mage-created creatures' as it has been till now.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 26, 2009 04:31 PM |
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My point with Rocs is that they are not part of the Tower, they were only there once while Golems and the Titans were always in from H2 to H5.
Yeah I barely changed the lineup(I call them spirits because pixies are now taken by Sylvan). I liked the lineup and the atmosphere, I just didn't liked playing with them.
Gargoyles are only called elementals because they're neither mechanicals, nor undead, yet they're still non-living. I doubt Titans get their lightning by magical means. Golems are just simply magic proof.
Bottomline is they can't cast spells(except Titans in H5) and they are artificial construct brought to life trough magic.
You could've clarified Novices earilier, with this name they seem to be casters. So you made the lv1 and lv2 unit change places, and replaces the 'spirits' with spell archers.
What you're trying to create here is nothing like Tower or Conflux(except for the mage and the phoenix). The tower was always a buliding faction, you can1t have an army of stronger and stronger mages, that'd turn out to be a way more boring h5 Fortress except it was logical for dwarves to have armies of different warriors, while it's unlogical for Tower since Wizards are supposed to be rare compared to fighters. Conflux is consedired as a failed experiment by many, most people says it's unnecessary, so why mess up an existing stabil faction with something what most people don't even like. Instead add a separate Conflux town so people who actually like it can play with it, and others don't have to miss Tower.
Titan is like the second most famous creature having a constant fight against Black Dragons. Why would you take out such a creature from the game? Or could you give it to another faction?
I know this is personal preference but look at the majority.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 26, 2009 11:58 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 00:06, 27 May 2009.
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My point with Rocs is that they are not part of the Tower, they were only there once while Golems and the Titans were always in from H2 to H5.
An interesting point, I'll consider that one.
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I liked the lineup and the atmosphere, I just didn't liked playing with them.
That's like buying a car for the looks, ie, a waste of time.
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Gargoyles are only called elementals because they're neither mechanicals, nor undead, yet they're still non-living.
Which is weird because they have very nearly the same properties (elemental creatures are still effected by morale, mechanicals aren't).
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I doubt Titans get their lightning by magical means.
How else are they supposed to get it, portable Tesla Coils?
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Golems are just simply magic proof.
Which means they're inherently magical.
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Bottomline is they can't cast spells(except Titans in H5) and they are artificial construct brought to life trough magic.
Made of magic, brought to life through magic, I'm failing to see a big difference here, they both require magic, just like both Zombies and Ghosts require necromancy.
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The tower was always a buliding faction, you can1t have an army of stronger and stronger mages, that'd turn out to be a way more boring h5 Fortress except it was logical for dwarves to have armies of different warriors, while it's unlogical for Tower since Wizards are supposed to be rare compared to fighters.
Actually, it's called the Academy now, not Tower, so whatever else it is, it's a school.
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Conflux is consedired as a failed experiment by many, most people says it's unnecessary, so why mess up an existing stabil faction with something what most people don't even like.
Because A. I didn't like it the way it was, and B. throwing a curve ball can make things interesting (not always good, I'll admit, but always interesting).
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Instead add a separate Conflux town so people who actually like it can play with it, and others don't have to miss Tower.
Problem there is that an independent Conflux will end up looking like the H3 Conflux, ie, something I hated to look at, and disliked playing.
Okay, I've thought a bit more about, and come to a decision, I'm dropping the Magewisps and Rocs, in place of Golems and Titans:
T1. Novice > [Ash/Mist] Novice / [Dust/Breeze] Novice
T2. Guard > Warder / Soldier
T3. Longshot > Sureshot / Mageshot
T4. [Ember/Rain] Alumnus / [Pebble/Wind] Alumnus > [Fire/Water] Mage / [Earth/Air] Mage
T5. Golem > [Magma/Marble] Golem / [Flint/Electrum] Golem
T6. Archmage > [Devastator/Ressurector] / [Sentinel/Levitor]
T7. Titan > [Brimstone/Golden] Titan / [Diamond/Thunder] Titan
There are now no fliers (except the Levitor), but I think a profusion of casters (tiers 4/6) and archers (tiers 3/4 and some of 6/7) will make up for that.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 27, 2009 03:31 PM |
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Your latest line up looks way better, even though Golems might be a little too close to Titans. I still don1t like it but wathever.
Those three are combat createrues, hurting their enemies in melee with their fists. Also, yeah I think Titans have tesla coils in themselves, or weather control devices, it can be magical for all I care I still wouldn't consedire them as magical creatures.
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That's like buying a car for the looks, ie, a waste of time.
Pointless for you but not for everyone.
Don't you like to stare at hot chicks?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 27, 2009 11:13 PM |
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I still don1t like it but wathever.
I know, you've admitted that you prefer the inferior, unbalanceable H3 model often enough.
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Don't you like to stare at hot chicks?
On occasion, but there's a difference between staring at one and having to live with one, and if I'm going to live with a woman I'll want her to be competent and pleasant more than I'll want her to be beautiful (besides, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, what I consider beautiful, and what's considered conventionally beautiful aren't going to be necessarily the same).
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 28, 2009 05:58 AM |
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Everything can be ballanced.
Also as I said before you don't have to "live with the girl" only in story mode for a while mode.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 28, 2009 09:38 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 09:43, 28 May 2009.
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Everything can be ballanced.
Not everything can be, certainly the H3 Conflux can't be, you either have to break the tier system, or you have to break the equal elementals convention, there's no two ways about it.
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Also as I said before you don't have to "live with the girl" only in story mode for a while mode.
If you can't live with it outside of story mode you shouldn't include it. In for a penny, in for a pound, anything less is half-assed and will hurt sales (the same way an obvious and easy-to-fix bug will).
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted May 31, 2009 09:01 PM |
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Breaking the creature tiers can be ballanced and it would bring way more strategies into the gameplay, which could appeal to many heroes fans. With my lineup Conflux would have a really fast early game, and a most likely a strong spellcasting late game, with a pretty weak mid game. I'm not saying it's easy to ballance, it is really difficult but it can be done regardless.
Either way, I'm sure having an additional town is way more appealing than messing up an existing faction.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted June 01, 2009 12:13 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 00:16, 01 Jun 2009.
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Breaking the creature tiers can be ballanced and it would bring way more strategies into the gameplay, which could appeal to many heroes fans.
'Could' being the operative word, it might entice some people, but I know that it will annoy a lot more (the last Conflux discussion proved as much).
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Either way, I'm sure having an additional town is way more appealing than messing up an existing faction.
Define 'messing up' because that's about the same base lineup as I'd use for an Academy faction anyway. Besides, to have something new you've often got to lose something old.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted June 01, 2009 08:08 AM |
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Well I don't know about the last discussion but from what I remember people from this topic are against the idea of mixing the two towns.
It's far from the same line up. Other than two constructs every other creature is human, which is why people call for example the H5 Fortress a boring town. You have two human mages on different tiers, you have a swordsman wih magic and an archer with magic, and a novice what I cannot imagine being a walker or not wielding magic. Besides this you have two "golems" but as a level 5 creature the golem'd be too near to the titan to not just look like a primitive ligtning less alternate to it.
Where is the four armed walker? Where are the genies? Why dismiss them because you think a faction should only have one kind of "magical" creature? I think this is messing up.
People don't really want many new things, what they want is an improved version(look at H4), they want many different choices, and flashy creatures. Trying to mix Academy with Conflux takes away many great units and turns them into magic wielding humans. Leaving the Conflux completly out of the game is way better than this.
Your idea wouldn't solve this "problem" because even if you add elemental properties to the creatures and double the number of possible upgrades(how's that not unballanced?), the four elementals would still be included as neutral creatures and a team would begin making a conflux town just because it was ok and they have four creatures for it.
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