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JollyJoker
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posted May 04, 2009 05:42 PM |
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Difference between physical and mental education, please: where is it? Why is forced education of the mind ok, but not of the body? Makes no sense to me.
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alcibiades
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posted May 04, 2009 06:50 PM |
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Forced education is never really good.
But to return to the point that "teachers never really bother to prepare the food [knowledge] before they serve it for the children/students".
There's a very good reason for this: You don't learn very well if you don't process the information yourself. To use the food analogy, having the teacher cook the meal might be more attractive for you right now and satisfy your hunger, but in the future, when you're hungry and the teacher is not around to cook your food, you'll be none the better.
If teacher coaches you to cook your dinner yourself, next time your hungry you'll be able to make yourself a dinner even if teacher is not at hand.
Watching teacher doing dinner might also do the trick for you, but you're less likely to realize what pitfalls you have in the cooking process. Maybe you didn't realize how teacher prevented the food from being burned, and when you have to do it yourself without superstition you'll burn the food, to use same analogy.
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Cepheus
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posted May 04, 2009 07:04 PM |
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Quote:
Computers could be used in actual computer classes, but not anywhere else.
Well, that's how we have it in Ireland, anyway. My left hand has turned brown from writing cramps.
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alcibiades
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posted May 04, 2009 07:11 PM |
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In Denmark, students are allowed to bring their PCs to lectures and all else. I guess it does some of the students good, but most are just distracted by playing games or surfing the web.
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xerdux
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posted May 04, 2009 07:22 PM |
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In Sweden some schools let the students make marks on their teachers, which will affect the teachers income etc.
There are plans to introduce this to school area northwest where I go. But im actually negative to this, as it feels like it will be an popularity contest.
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DagothGares
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posted May 04, 2009 08:25 PM |
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Don't make the mistakes the Netherlads made, Sweden...
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TheDeath
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posted May 04, 2009 09:56 PM |
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Binabik I agree with your first post about "formal eduaction being way overrated" and the visualization thing, exactly my thoughts 
Also I agree with JJ especially this:Quote:
In today's time we need to teach METHODS to find knowledge more than actual and factual knowledge - knowledge is just changing and increasing too fast.
I know it from personal experience. (you can't imagine how many formulas, especially trigonometric in 3D software case I would have to remember... lol). It is also important to note that I myself have "cooked" them up and stored them in my organized fashion, I can quickly look them up because I know how I stored them (on my PC of course). So it's not just 'citing' them but I DO understand how they work.
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Should be optional. They have their benefits, but they're not for everyone. I can't imagine Bubba benefiting much from them. I can tell you that art classes have not done me any good at all - I just suffered the whole time.
If you want to be fair, nothing is "for everyone" except basic language skills (this is for social reasons, not for any other reason). Anything further than elementary school should be optional too. Even math is not "needed" (except basic arithmetic).
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mvassilev
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posted May 04, 2009 10:39 PM |
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Quote:
If you want to be fair, nothing is "for everyone" except basic language skills (this is for social reasons, not for any other reason). Anything further than elementary school should be optional too. Even math is not "needed" (except basic arithmetic).
Well, yeah. That and basic civics.
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Doomforge
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posted May 05, 2009 09:35 AM |
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I have already forgotten the absurd amount of knowledge high school pumped in me. I mean, I wouldn't be able to solve a simple chemistry task now, because I forgot all the algorithms and formulas. What use is it now? Zero. I only feel bad cause I lost a lot of time as teenager trying to memorize that stuff.
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alcibiades
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posted May 05, 2009 10:25 AM |
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Quote:
I have already forgotten the absurd amount of knowledge high school pumped in me. I mean, I wouldn't be able to solve a simple chemistry task now, because I forgot all the algorithms and formulas. What use is it now? Zero. I only feel bad cause I lost a lot of time as teenager trying to memorize that stuff.
Maybe that's true, maybe not.
If you came in a condition where you actually had to solve a chemistry problem, question is not just whether you'd be able to do it right away (would be good if you could, but if you haven't practiced chemistry since, you most likely won't be able to) but also whether you'd be able to put yourself in a position where you would be again able to do it - i.e. if you needed to do it, you could look up information on the internet that you might be able to understand because of your education, which you'd not readily be able to consume had you never done any chemistry before.
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Doomforge
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posted May 05, 2009 10:44 AM |
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That's true, but forcing me to to do 200 examples or learn the definitions by rote is a bad way of teaching me anything.
I think school should not require us to memorize pretty much anything - since it does no good (we forget after few months anyway).
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mvassilev
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posted May 05, 2009 02:47 PM |
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We certainly shouldn't be learning by rote. But I think I could still do anything I learned in Chemistry last year.
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Corribus
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posted May 05, 2009 03:21 PM |
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You learn by memorization because in many cases the teachers don't have any better fundamental understanding of the material than you do.
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phoenixreborn
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posted May 05, 2009 05:51 PM |
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Vlaad gives an interesting sample of a possible lesson plan for a study of The Scarlet Letter. What exactly is the current lesson plan method that that is a response to? Undercooked food lacks the specifics provided in Vlaad's example.
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Vlaad
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posted May 05, 2009 06:07 PM |
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Quote:
What exactly is the current lesson plan method
No idea really. I've just applied differentiated instruction to my high school teacher's methods.
I cannot believe anybody could make The Scarlet Letter boring.
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phoenixreborn
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posted May 05, 2009 08:41 PM |
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Quote:
90% of what I know, it was not from school. 
@TheDeath Are there any subjects or activities that you cannot learn on your own?
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TheDeath
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posted May 05, 2009 10:07 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 22:09, 05 May 2009.
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If by "on your own" you mean "not formal education", then nope 
No I don't learn everything by reading books. Sometimes I learn it by intuition. Sometimes I also may need someone else (but not school), like say, when learning a new language pronunciations. I don't plan to do that for the moment though. That doesn't mean it's formal education (aka school) at all. (which sucks because it is systematic and it doesn't adjust to your needs and... the whole system sucks )
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phoenixreborn
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posted May 07, 2009 05:38 AM |
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@TD How's your violin playing?
@ Everyone else: was your education exactly like Doomforge's? Memorization has it's place but it isn't the only method that was ever used in a classroom...
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Binabik
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posted May 07, 2009 06:14 AM |
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Quote:
I think school should not require us to memorize pretty much anything
You mean you don't recite poetry to your girlfriend?
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways
I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach
Noooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! I'm ruined!!!!
I can't believe I still remember that after 39 years.
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mvassilev
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posted May 07, 2009 06:23 AM |
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Quote:
was your education exactly like Doomforge's? Memorization has it's place but it isn't the only method that was ever used in a classroom...
Not all the time. There's a bit of memorization in practically everything, but not too bad. (The biggest offenders are Chemistry [WTF transition metals] and AP Biology.)
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This thread is pages long: 
