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| Thread: We've got hostiles |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 10:29 PM |
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Yes, but kidz still do.
Its easy to get achive such things.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 10:47 PM |
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Totoro:
Quote:
So if I take interactive doll with remote control and make it shoot someone with a pistol, then you can blame the doll, right?
You are the one that is causing the trigger to be pulled. The doll is incapable of choosing otherwise.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 13, 2009 10:48 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 22:49, 13 May 2009.
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Quote:
Yes, but kidz still do.
Its easy to get achive such things.
Then fricking ban sticks, a sharp stick can be very deadly.
My kids won't even get sticks, they will only get cuddly stuff like pillows. No scratch that, they might choke eachother with it.
hmm... maybe... maybe pinecones? No... one in the eye could prove fatal...
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted May 13, 2009 10:52 PM |
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My cildren will live in plastic bubbles for the rest of their lives.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 13, 2009 10:57 PM |
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Quote:
Good.
It can be very dangerous and violent.
But laser game doesn't harm anyone.
Have you ever played paintball?
Do you know how much FUN it is? 
Poor Germans.
Starship Troopers would have had something to say about this, I think.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted May 13, 2009 10:59 PM |
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Quote:
My cildren will live in plastic bubbles for the rest of their lives.
What if they bite off their tongue by accident and choke on their own blood? I can't believe how unresponsible you people are!
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none of my business.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted May 13, 2009 11:01 PM |
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Wait, I know, let's sever their spinal chords, so they're paralysed for the rest of their lives and can't let any harm befall to them!
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 11:08 PM |
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted May 13, 2009 11:12 PM |
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Well, either pump em with drugs or suffocate them when they are born so they have brain damage and can't think properly.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 07:56 AM |
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No I havnt but I have played lazor game and it was fun.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 14, 2009 09:45 AM |
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Laser games isn't even close to as fun as Paintball, have you tried Softair then?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 10:33 AM |
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Wait a sec, please. There are many forms of paintball, but a "game" that is or would be extremely dangerous for random passersby or even live spectators is no game anymore, but more like a maneuvre.
Take a close look. Obviously paintball - as far as the actual game mechanism is concerned - is something like dodgeball with altered rules. Instead of throwing a "stone" (ball), you shoot WITH GUNS.
And that's exactly the problem. Why does the marker look like a gun? Why does it feel like "shooting"?
You see, it's not the sport as such that is a problem - the sport as a series of rules and goals is fine. It's the fact that it comes in a martial form.
Look at it this way. Take American Football. You might make the endzone look more like a castle or even a house or something, and you may make the football look like a bomb. Additionally, there might be a trigger on the ball that would tear it apart in a rain of confetti, if pressed in the endzone and additionally the castle would break down (to be erected automatically after some seconds). You know what I mean? The game, while technically still the same, would appear completely different.
Which is the problem with paintball. There is obviously nothing wrong with having games that involve hitting people with something to "put them out". Making it appear like fighting a war with gun-shaped markers is pretty obviously the wrong way to establish it as a "game".
But that's exactly what it comes down to, right? If it wouldn't appear that way, it was suddenly only half as interesting. Just some other lame Dodgeball game.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 14, 2009 10:58 AM |
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Firstly, calling paintball "extremely dangerous" is an extreme overstatement. If paintball is extremely dangerous, then driving a car is suicidal.
As for paintball having violent connotations to it, that's true, but irrelevant. Every violent video game falls under the same judgment as paintball then, only perhaps even greater so because unlike paintball, people actually are depicted as exploding and dying in video games. Why? Well, let's just state it bluntly: violence is fun and exciting. This inborn violent passion, however, can be safely channeled through rough sports, paint ball, video games, and other activities. As for the deeper problems such as enraged kids going on killing sprees, we're finding that bullying, bad parenting, and perhaps a severe pre-existing mental illness is to blame for that.
Guns have been around for hundreds of years, and historically, during less populated times, they were frequently carried, and yet there isn't a history of students going into their schools and shooting up their peers and then killing themselves, so the problem is obviously triggered by a recent change in society.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 11:46 AM |
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Quote:
True, but irrelevant. Every violent video game falls under the same judgment as paintball then, only perhaps even greater so because unlike paintball, people actually are depicted as exploding and dying in video games. Why? Well, let's just state it bluntly: violence is fun and exciting. This inborn violent passion, however, can be safely channeled through rough sports, paint ball, video games, and other activities. As for the deeper problems such as enraged kids going on killing sprees, we're finding that bullying, bad parenting, and perhaps a severe pre-existing mental illness is to blame for that.
Guns have been around for hundreds of years, and historically, during less populated times, they were frequently carried, and yet there isn't a history of students going into their schools and shooting up their peers and then killing themselves, so the problem is obviously triggered by a recent change in society.
Since your last paragraph could be answered with, yes, shooting up peers and killing themselves is existing as a phenomenon only since there are violent video games. Which means, your reasoning is doubtful, to say the least.
Even more doubtful is this "inborn violent passion" you name. I don't know of an inborn violent passion. There is no violence drive I'd be aware of - violence, as far as I know, is venting frustration. Historically there have been a lot frustration and a lot of violence as well, only in a much more canalized way. The world as such was a lot more violent. Education was a lot more violent.
Nowadays there's still a lot of frustration - puberty alone makes sure of that. But there is a lot more stuff to get ideas from, and education is a lot less disciplined. Naturally the pendulum swings a bit more extremely to the left and to the right, which means the worst cases become more extreme - worser. (This is my opinion on why this happens.)
That means, everything plays a part, and it's rather silly to point with a finger at one thing. Which means, I didn't say, banning paintball will have an effect.
I just said, good riddance paintball. I'd say the same with ultraviolent video games, movies and so on - who needs them? Just because something may be possible you don't have to show it.
I mean, bombs explode in busses in real life and kill people. Ok.
Movies and games may show bombs exploding in busses, killing people. Ok.
But do we really need to see it in superslomo, every sickening detail of it, every fraction of a second, focussed on a body being massacred? How the splinters are lacerating skin, maiming flesh, tattering things, how eyes burst... Do we need that? Is it cool to watch that, not puking, but standing it like a man, unflinching. WOW! Did you see that! Incredible!
The problem is, if you see something often, it numbs. Ask soldiers who actually fought in a war. Or surgeons. Policemen. Whatever. You adapt. A couple of decades ago an exploding car was one hell of action. Nowadays you have to flatten a city to get a reaction. Which is the point. What do you think why soldiers are drilled? Veiolence is something you adapt to - levels raise. It's relative.
Which is why politicians do what they do, to be seen doing something, no matter what, but what they are doing may still have merits.
Edit: if you quote, do it full length: Quote:
Firstly, calling paintball "extremely dangerous" is an extreme overstatement. If paintball is extremely dangerous, then driving a car is suicidal.
I said, "extremely dangerous for random passersby", if it's played outside, in some wooded area, for example.
I'd further like to add, in complex problems, that have many causes, it makes no sense to do nothing, just because the suggested action won't (be enough to) solve the problem completely.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 14, 2009 12:05 PM |
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Paintball
You get guns, ammo, protection gear and instruction how to use these. If you follow these instructions, Paintball isn't dangerous at all... only a bit painfull if you suck at it
If you get shot in the face during paintball, and lose some teeth or so, then it's your own fault. You have been warned, and chose not to wear the protective Helmet. You weighed the risk and lost. The pain is the punishment you deserve for such foolishness.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted May 14, 2009 12:18 PM |
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Quote:
"extremely dangerous for random passersby"
Just curious, have you ever played paintball?
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Result matters
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 14, 2009 12:19 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 12:20, 14 May 2009.
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In organized paintball, you have nets around the arena to protect non-players.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 12:45 PM |
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What about Woodland?
That's after all where it comes from.
But that's what I mean - you have to take preparations to protect the audience.
See the difference? Most games come somewhere out of the streets or on the fields, from kids playing in their spare time. If that was true for paintball it would come from streetgang-fights.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 01:00 PM |
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Bah. Boys have been "playing war" for generations, and who didn't own a set of toy soldiers as a kid?
If somebody thinks ADULTS playing a GAME, however violent it looks, may get their CONSCIOUSNESS altered, he/she is somewhat deluded...
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 14, 2009 01:05 PM |
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Quote:
Since your last paragraph could be answered with, yes, shooting up peers and killing themselves is existing as a phenomenon only since there are violent video games. Which means, your reasoning is doubtful, to say the least.
Even more doubtful is this "inborn violent passion" you name. I don't know of an inborn violent passion. There is no violence drive I'd be aware of - violence, as far as I know, is venting frustration. Historically there have been a lot frustration and a lot of violence as well, only in a much more canalized way. The world as such was a lot more violent. Education was a lot more violent.
Nowadays there's still a lot of frustration - puberty alone makes sure of that. But there is a lot more stuff to get ideas from, and education is a lot less disciplined. Naturally the pendulum swings a bit more extremely to the left and to the right, which means the worst cases become more extreme - worser. (This is my opinion on why this happens.)
That means, everything plays a part, and it's rather silly to point with a finger at one thing. Which means, I didn't say, banning paintball will have an effect.
I just said, good riddance paintball. I'd say the same with ultraviolent video games, movies and so on - who needs them? Just because something may be possible you don't have to show it.
I mean, bombs explode in busses in real life and kill people. Ok.
Movies and games may show bombs exploding in busses, killing people. Ok.
But do we really need to see it in superslomo, every sickening detail of it, every fraction of a second, focussed on a body being massacred? How the splinters are lacerating skin, maiming flesh, tattering things, how eyes burst... Do we need that? Is it cool to watch that, not puking, but standing it like a man, unflinching. WOW! Did you see that! Incredible!
The problem is, if you see something often, it numbs. Ask soldiers who actually fought in a war. Or surgeons. Policemen. Whatever. You adapt. A couple of decades ago an exploding car was one hell of action. Nowadays you have to flatten a city to get a reaction. Which is the point. What do you think why soldiers are drilled? Veiolence is something you adapt to - levels raise. It's relative.
When I say "inborn violent passion", I basically mean how a person enjoys action. It's why we like action movies and videos games- it excites a lot of us.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say that education was a lot more violent in the past. The world is less violent than it used to be, but not in the classroom, unless you include the nonlethal fist fights between young boys that used to be more common, but that doesn't really compare whatsoever to a kid going into a school with a gun and shooting people.
As for whether or not it means these things should be banned, I really don't think we'll get anywhere since we're approaching this from two completely opposite perspectives. Even if excessively violent video games & movies cause an increase of aggression, that doesn't justify a governmental ban on such materials. What it means is that parents should monitor what their kids do: something that is becoming increasingly rare.
Quote:
Which is why politicians do what they do, to be seen doing something, no matter what, but what they are doing may still have merits.
I'd further like to add, in complex problems, that have many causes, it makes no sense to do nothing, just because the suggested action won't (be enough to) solve the problem completely.
And this is typically an inherent weakness to elections (I still support elections though of course). Politicians are compelled to so something, anything, in order to make it look like they're useful and worthy of reelection. But doing something on the governmental level is not always the solution, or if it is a solution, it's questionable if it's worth the cost. It is insufficient (for many people) for you to simply point out that X thing causes even a slight danger, therefore it should be banned. The epitome of life isn't in having absolute safety. You have to prove that something is dangerous enough that it's worthwhile sacrificing some of our liberty for it. Roughly 3,000 on the globe die every day in vehicle accidents, but don't expect a lot of people to be receptive when you propose mass restrictions of vehicles. Likewise, pointing out the relatively minor danger of paintball and the very small increase of aggression it may cause in kids isn't enough for me to approve of banning it.
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