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| Thread: free mmos that are decent |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 15, 2009 07:58 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 19:59, 15 Jun 2009.
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i forgot this part though :|
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level, health bar, mana bar, there are other portraits besides the player, they most likely are part of the group with whom you're most likely supposed to go to some dungeon to kill bosses who, with small propability drop an item that you want and then you do it over and over again until you get the item. The formula is always the same.
it is not worth my time to find the original concepts to prove a point. The point is that none of these things are WOW originals. Sure certain things in WOW are original but not these things that can be on any game because when it comes to this gaming style they are as common as using digital imagery and sound
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 15, 2009 08:43 PM |
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Say one game that has all the features that WoW has?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 15, 2009 08:56 PM |
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why don't you put some work into your argument and make a list of those things wow has that "were original".. Maybe I will respond with previous and current games that have those things.
To be fair, list the things you already posted in this thread like A HEALTH BAR
I am willing to bet that anything relatively original in WOW are not among basic things like QUESTS
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 15, 2009 08:57 PM |
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no game has all the same features of any other game unless it is literally a copy. Technically speaking a huge majority of sequels have different features than the previous editions.
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 15, 2009 09:17 PM |
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Edited by Totoro at 22:00, 15 Jun 2009.
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no game has all the same features of any other game unless it is literally a copy.
It is obvious that graphics and such must be different for not violating copyrights but there are games that have all features that WoW has, like Runes of Magic for example.
Quests, unit stats and monster slaying are basic elements introduced in every RPG but when a game has also talent tree, mounts, dungeon raiding, guilds, classes, PvP arenas, duels, armor set bonuses, action bars, reputation system and auction houses you seriously have to doubt that the creators would have never checked the other game until they created this one.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 15, 2009 10:14 PM |
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talent tree, mounts, dungeon raiding, guilds, classes, PvP arenas, duels, armor set bonuses, action bars, reputation system and auction houses you seriously have to doubt that the creators would have never checked the other game until they created this one.
actually all these things were in Everquest (I think mounts might be an exception but it has been a long long time). Though the talent tree was a bit different. They even had instances. Honestly, it was more the graphics that won people over from Everquest. Just as Everquest's graphics won people over from other MMORPGs that came before it. Well that and the vast popularity of Warcraft.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 15, 2009 10:41 PM |
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Everquest was basically the founding father of all MMOs. There were many guys from Everquest that started on WoW. WoW was developed around the same time as Warcraft 3 too.
It was a very very different game then now, it was more like a Online RPG.
The creators of Guild Wars mainly came from the orginal WoW team. Now there is basically no one left from the old WoW team. Several players from top guilds in Everquest, such as Fires of Heaven, got work at Blizzard. Tigole for instance. Tigole no longer works on WoW though, but on the unannounched MMO in a new universe. Probably modern times. Blizz already have a fantasy and sci-fi universe. Blackthorn Online ftw.
WoW took many things from Everquest as it had many developers that had worked on Everquest too. And we all know that there is nothing wrong with changing a winning concept.
WoW took many aspects from Everquest - and improved them. I do not think WoW would have been a large success if it had no "stolen" from Everquest, the core aspects of every MMO.
WoW has mostly developed to its own game now, with its own features and mechancics. Of course, WoW still "steals" if they see a winning concept. The PvP success of WAR caused the developers of World of Warcraft to introduce back siege vehicles such as Demolishers and Siege Engines that we know from Warcraft 3. Wrath of the Lich King also introduced a PvP zone, which likely wouldnt have existed without the deemand from PvP content and WAR.
Naturally, lots of free MMOs have "stolen" from WoW, like WoW did with Everquest in the begining. They attempt to create a winning concept. Runes of Magic is a perfect example. The game is basically a 90% copy of WoW and other famous MMOs. But even old games such as Runescapes has been updated with features from WoW, such as the auction houses I believe.
WoW introduced many things such as live in-game phasing (I think), auction houses and talent trees.
In WoW a Priest is not forced to heal and there is a "rotation", a different class mechanic between the talent trees and classes. A Discipline Priest doesnt heal in the same way as a Holy Priest. And a Shadow Priest doesnt heal at all, but provides group utility and damage.
WoW introduced a clean and good UI. Just look at LOTRO or WAR. The UI looks exactly the same as WoWs. Of course the others MMOs have taken this, as it works good for the game.
The only way I see another game stealing from WoW would be if it stole large aspects of their lore.
Look at HoMM5. The games story was likely inspired by WoW. Look at the Orcs in Warcraft. Drank demonic blood to become stronger and more savage. Lost a war and became slaves. A young orc frees them and redeems them and they fight for the greater good. Then look at the Orcs in H5. Were created using demon blood. Used as slaves. A young orc frees them and they fight for the greater good.
That was stealing. That LOTRO happens to have the same UI was WoW or Runescape the auction houses is not stealing. However, in some cases its extreme. Runes of Magic is extreme and I do consider that stealing. Pretty much everything in the game is directly taken from other MMOs. Atleast LOTRO had a great title system etc and WAR a great PvP system. Runes of Magic has nothing unique.
Conclusion: WoW took aspects from Everquest. Now lots of other MMOs take aspects from WoW as it is a winning concept. WoW still takes features from other games if they are succcessful. There are a few cases where games steal though. HoMM5 took much of Warcrafts lore. Runes of Magic has nothing unique at all.
It will be intersting to what new features Blizzards next unannounched MMO will have.
I believe that their new MMO will be game-breaking and lead a revoloution to MMO gaming. Blizzard has a lot of experience from WoW now and have learnt from its mistakes (Little PvP, grinding) and what its successes (Strong PvE content, Class diversity) and I doubt it will be a WoW cop.
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 15, 2009 11:15 PM |
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Here we have some inside information 
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 15, 2009 11:39 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 23:43, 15 Jun 2009.
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talent tree = nice feature, it is an evolved skill path and is used in a lot of games these days. I am certain it is not WOW original. It is an evolved system of something along the lines of "magic lvl 5 unlocks spell A1, spell A! is a requirement to unlock spell B series) If wow made the entire tree for the first time or not, this would mean they ripped off original ideas under your logic, and
mounts = ripped of from real life, introduced in games well before WOW was even a thought.
dungeon raiding = happened in old, OLD folk lore
guilds = from real life, existed in games before WOW. Perhaps WOW was the first MMORPG to have them, which would enable more functionality but I assure you guilds are nothing next to new.
classes = definitely not original
PvP arenas = do you really thing something like PVP is a concept that only WOW could have come up with? PVP existed in attari games, nintendo games, these are concepts that are way to natural to say only wow can use them without artistic theft.
duels = the ways of times long ago. Check what I typed for PVP arenas, same applies here.
armor set bonuses = Are you talking about stats? Seriously? You can't be.
action bars = again, diablo was before WOW and I am willing to bet it was not first introduced in diablo either. Action bars are simply a GUI display of certain hot keys (usually 1-0)
reputation system = there are reputation systems all over the place especially on the web.
auction houses = exist in real life well before wow.
There is actually a lot more I can say about each of these few things you say something like "these are WOW originals". But I am not going to go on, and on, and on. I could also make annotations which would apply to several of this list like
*1 exists in real life
*2 in games before WOW was a mere thought
etc
But what makes WOW so invincible from your claim that other games took creative concept from WOW? Where do you draw the line? I notice you did not say health bar or quests, which I specifically said along the lines of, to be fair list these things.
What makes you draw the line at WOW when WOW has probably well over 50% of creative concept that is completely unoriginal?
P.S. Shaiya, the game you say ripped off concepts from WOW imparticular (lol) does not have all of these things you specified. These so called WOW exclusive concepts that shaiya "ripped off" are shared by many games because they are entirely basic concepts, like quests, stats, armor bonus, mounts, parties, health bar, hot keys/action bar, mini map, list of partied characters, experience, etc.
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 15, 2009 11:57 PM |
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Edited by Totoro at 23:59, 15 Jun 2009.
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You're still missing my point. I didn't came here to solve out where game ideas originate from. I'm here to hear you tell me one game that has every single one of those ideas implemented.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 16, 2009 12:02 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 00:06, 16 Jun 2009.
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before or after WOW? Quite possibly none/zero/nil/nadda..
Maybe someone else feels like putting time into this but I am not about to go over game after game to find one that is like WOW for whatever reason.
What it boils down too is the features you say are ripped off of WOW are not original, and are similar to claiming that random person from 1000BC invented the circle, then a fight breaks out because people who draw circles are being unoriginal. Circles are to basic to claim artistic rights.
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You're still missing my point. I didn't came here to solve out where game ideas originate from. I'm here to hear you tell me one game that has every single one of those ideas implemented.
Your point is somewhat becoming more unclear with the quoted post. You probably came here to check out a thread, and in response to it you claim games with basic features ripped of concepts from WOW. If I have to tell you which games have all those features then you defeat your own point. No game is exactly like WOW, before or after it's introduction. The features you mention are not WOW exclusive for many reasons. Many of them are nothing near original/they existed before WOW and or in Real life aswell. The features WOW has that might be original, are simply evolved concepts from prior games.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 16, 2009 12:05 AM |
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Talent trees have been created in WoW and are not used in the traditional way you might think.
Talent trees in WoW changes the class completly. Lets take a Mage as an example.
An arcane Mage uses completly different spells then the other mages. First, they cast 2x Arcane Blasts. Arcane Blasts increases the damage of your next spell but also its mana cost. Then a Arcane Barrage. The Mage will repeat this rotation untill he gets "Missile Barrage", which makes the spell Arcane Missiles (I cant spell that word today) instant.
Now take a Fire mage. They use completly different spells and have very different playstyle from the Arcane mage.
Instead the Fire mage constantly casts Fireball and a Scorch spell to keep up a spell effect. And then when "Hot Streak" procs he will cast an instant Pyroblast.
Same thing with tanking. A Death Knight with the unique rune system tanks completly different from a Warrior or Paladin.
A Discipline priest uses shields and barriers to migrate damage while a Restoration Shaman keeps a steady rotation of Riptíde, Chain Heal, Healing Way and possibly Lesser Healing Wave depending on your playstyle.
Mounts are just stupid to say that they are ripped off. Mounts are obvious and hardly anything unique.
What do you mean with dungeon raiding happening in old folk lore? So they played World of Warcraft and run through Ulduar and learned the tactics on the bosses there?
Did fight bosses such as Yogg-Saron or even Mimiron, both of which are very complex encounters?
Instances might have been in Everquest, but I think real raiding (which is very different from doing a normal instance...) was defintly introduced with WoW.
Guilds in the way that they are now, were probably started in WoW unless they existed in some way in Everquest.
You cant compare real life stuff to features in a game. There are huge differences between a club in real life and a guild in a MMO 
Classes are obvious and cant be classified as "stealing".
PvP arenas was introduced in WoW, with the arena ladder system, tournaments and ratings.
You cant compare PvP in a MMO to an old atari games...
Duels are such a minor feature and I cant see how you can complain about them.
Armour sets were introduced on Diablo which is a Blizzard series of games. So Blizzard defintly didnt "steal" from anyone.
Again, Diablo IS A BLIZZARD GAME! WoW has been created by Blizzard.
Reputations were introduced in WoW. You probably dont know how reputations work in WoW. You cant compare reputation to the QP system etc on HC. Its so different.
Auction Houses are completly different then in real life. Its not like players stand and scream "One gold! Three gold there! Ten gold here! 1 2 3 - One stack of Nerubian Chitin sold for merely 10 gold!"
Again you cant compare real life to a video game.
Celfious, im sorry to say this but you dont seem to have any idea how World of Warcraft works. You dont seem to know anything about the game at all and like I said many times - YOU CANT COMPARE REAL LIFE TO A VIDEO GAME! Well, unless its Sims I guess lol
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 16, 2009 12:10 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 00:18, 16 Jun 2009.
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Celfious, im sorry to say this but you dont seem to have any idea how World of Warcraft works. You dont seem to know anything about the game at all and like I said many times - YOU CANT COMPARE REAL LIFE TO A VIDEO GAME! Well, unless its Sims I guess lol
Had I played games similar to WOW then I would know more about WOWs system but I have not, Shaiya included.
I am not part of any group of nit picking committees. I too have the ability to nit pick at every detail you two say. What your claims boil down to is that WoW is a major target for concept theft. You apparently draw the line somewhere because WoW is no where near complete originality. Most of their concept comes from past video games and folk lore stemming 100s of years ago. Anything that is vaguely original is simply a twist on already existing concept.
I do not thank you for turning this thread into an argument whether or not WOW is original.
Diablo is blizzard, nice observation. If I wanted too I am certain I could find games that had hot keys well before diablo was a thought.
If you want to continue this argument plz do so in a new thread. This one is more suitable for death than to be turned into this argument.
If you say WOW was ripped off in several ways, you are definitely by your own logic drawing the line at a biased point. I venture to say nearly nothing from WOW would have ever come to be had not original ideas inspired them.
Mounts
mystical races
magic/mages
classes
stats
experience
pvp
duels
battle
weapons armor equipment
health bar
partying
quests
not a ONE of those are WOW originals no matter how you try to defend it. And this list is extremely small to the number of things WOW has.
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Mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted June 16, 2009 12:13 AM |
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I hate twelvesky, now, because you have to build your character in a certain way for him to be effective... I'd rather have my stats automatically arranged or just the option to follow a build throughout the way I'm levelling up. It would make it less complicated and impossible to **** it all up.
how is this different from building your hero in homm?
Mamga, believe me when I say you can't really mess up in HOMM. Sure, some options are a bad idea, but, just like in chess, every move you make balances out, eventually. If you get a high level you're strong, no matter what skills you took and you can even take the smarter skills after you tried a little. To optimise your character here you need a flipping strategy guide.
true for the most part... its mostly community too.
in an mmo not enough many people take the game lightly enough to have a little fun.
its all a tournament level in there. there is no argument that there are bad builds for a tourney situation but the more carefree the environment the better choices and options there are.
plus you spend some 80+ hours building one character while you spend less than 5 playing building a homm one.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 16, 2009 12:27 AM |
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And you cant call one of those "features" you mentioned as a theft.
For instance, "mystical races". So if a game has elves in it, then it has stolen it from norse mythology?
So by that logic, Tolkien is a thief as over half of everything he wrote comes from various mythologies and folklore. So the character Gandalf is stolen because it means "Grand Elf" or "Elf King" in old norse?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted June 16, 2009 12:35 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 00:37, 16 Jun 2009.
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by that logic
which is not my logic/it is the very logic I shine a light of reality check onto. If you fail to see that my mentioning those things are calibrated in a way to target that logic then I ask you to just realize that was my whole point, to point out that saying the concept that WOW uses is original and all else stole from WOW, is to draw the line at a biased point because technically nothing in WOW is 100% unique in every single way.
And
please out of respect for HC ethics or whatever means anything to you stop debating in this thread about this. It is a huge example of off topic discussions. There is a "new thread" type of thing on the bottom of all forums which can be used to continue this debate if you feel it necessary. I recommend the volcanic wastelands
@ father I want to play that game, I estimate within a couple of days I will have figured out the error and will be ready to create a character.
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 16, 2009 02:30 PM |
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Edited by Totoro at 14:30, 16 Jun 2009.
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You're a mountaineer? Where have you climbed?
I personally think that I should try it as I've always had some kind of passion for mountains and climbing. How you get started?
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted June 16, 2009 02:53 PM |
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You're a mountaineer? Where have you climbed?
I personally think that I should try it as I've always had some kind of passion for mountains and climbing. How you get started?
First you need to research mountain inf...
Oh, maybe you were talking about RL, my bad.
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