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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: OMG You Guys Won't Believe This: Mother Owes For Illegal Downloads
Thread: OMG You Guys Won't Believe This: Mother Owes For Illegal Downloads This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted June 24, 2009 09:23 AM

Guys, again, it's not the downloads that's up for discussion. It's the file sharing, which makes it possible for millions of others to download it.


It's not the same as breaking into a store, stealing some records and giving them to your friends, as Mytical said. It's the same as stealing a bunch of records, making thousands of copies of them and giving them out for free to anyone who asks.



I'm not taking a side in this I'm just saying that arguing over downloads is the wrong concept.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 24, 2009 09:36 AM

Quote:
What is your substitute to capitalism? Communism? Anarchism?


I can answer that: Socialism, I guess.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted June 24, 2009 03:31 PM

@TA
Quote:
It's not the same as breaking into a store, stealing some records and giving them to your friends, as Mytical said. It's the same as stealing a bunch of records, making thousands of copies of them and giving them out for free to anyone who asks.

What's the difference?  It's the same crime in both cases.  The only difference is quantity.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted June 24, 2009 05:13 PM

Quote:
@Death: Will you please stop vilifying capitalism if you don't want to answer my question?
I thought that was pretty obvious wasn't it?
Yes as Doom said, socialism.

Quote:
But if there is no such thing as intellectual property, then you do own it, correct?
Rule 2.
And this is the last time I'm going to repeat THAT again? What are we going now back 1 page again when I discuss plagiarism?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted June 24, 2009 06:27 PM

For the last time, you do not have to create something in order to own it.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted June 24, 2009 06:29 PM

For intellectual property, sorry mvass, but you do. That's the whole point of intellectual property.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 24, 2009 06:31 PM

Yes - but if intellectual property were to be abolished, then that exception would not exist.
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted June 24, 2009 06:55 PM

Quote:
What's the difference?  It's the same crime in both cases.  The only difference is quantity.


Crime yes. BUT, ones got the steal quality of *value, the other got the quantity value of *0 stolen.

Quote:
But if there is no such thing as intellectual property, then you do own it, correct?


You would not own it since owning stuff did not exist.

Quote:
Yes - but if intellectual property were to be abolished, then that exception would not exist.


But there would also be no terms on what we are killing each other over here.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted June 24, 2009 06:59 PM

Quote:
You would not own it since owning stuff did not exist.
You would still own the CD with the stuff on it.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted June 24, 2009 07:06 PM

Quote:
Yes - but if intellectual property were to be abolished, then that exception would not exist.
How can you own it when the entire concept around which it is based is abolished or doesn't exist?

That would be like saying that you can own a patent when patents are abolished or in a patentless society. Makes no sense.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted June 24, 2009 07:11 PM

No, you own the CD on which there is data that was created by somebody else. So you would be able to sell it for a higher price than you would a blank CD.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted June 24, 2009 08:32 PM

/facepalm

it's worthless. I swear.

DATA is INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Either that OR NO PROPERTY AT ALL. YOU CANNOT SELL what is NOT PROPERTY.

Not to mention in your example the dude would have said, after the "I downloaded it off the Internet" -> "And you expect me to buy it from you? What do you think I'm stupid? Why wouldn't I download it myself?"

Of course you can always TRADE it with him, for instance, if he has a slow connection or something. That is NOT selling. Selling is when you sell THE DATA itself, PROPERTY. Not a "service".

/end
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
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posted June 24, 2009 09:32 PM

Quote:
YOU CANNOT SELL what is NOT PROPERTY.
The CD is property that has been enhanced with the data.

Quote:
Not to mention in your example the dude would have said, after the "I downloaded it off the Internet" -> "And you expect me to buy it from you? What do you think I'm stupid? Why wouldn't I download it myself?"
Slow/no connection? Lack of time (or knowledge of where to find it)?

Quote:
Of course you can always TRADE it with him
Yes - when it's traded for money, that's called SELLING.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted June 24, 2009 09:37 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 21:38, 24 Jun 2009.

Quote:
The CD is property that has been enhanced with the data.
If you get into stupid semantics, I'm done with this.
A house can be 'enhanced' with furniture too. You can't sell the furniture if it's not your property. PERIOD.

Quote:
Yes - when it's traded for money, that's called SELLING.
Are you telling me that, at least in the real world, selling stuff is the same as trading something with a friend? GET REAL. And stop playing semantics.

Most times you even need a license to sell stuff, but not to trade.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 24, 2009 09:53 PM

Quote:
You can't sell the furniture if it's not your property.
Only because the furniture can't be duplicated easily. With software, you create 2 where there was 1.

Quote:
Are you telling me that, at least in the real world, selling stuff is the same as trading something with a friend?
Yes.

Quote:
Most times you even need a license to sell stuff, but not to trade.
Only because of the law. Is the law God? It's because non-monetary trading is usually on a much smaller scale, and is therefore both harder to regulate and there is less to gain from regulating it.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted June 24, 2009 10:10 PM

Wow, some of this has been taken to the point of absurdity.

But to set a couple things straight:

@Mvass
<<<You would still own the CD with the stuff on it.>>>

I assume you own the plastic CD itself, but you absolutely do NOT own the stuff on it.


mvass: <<<For the last time, you do not have to create something in order to own it.>>>

death: <<<For intellectual property, sorry mvass, but you do. That's the whole point of intellectual property. >>>

Mvass is right. You do not have to be the one who created it to own it. The two most obvious examples of this are:

1) Intellectual property can be (and often is) sold.


2) If you create something as an employee of a company, the company owns it, unless both parties have specifically signed a contract which states otherwise. Furthermore, with most contracts I've signed, I don't even have to be at work or on company time for them to own it. This last statement is conditional. It's true IF the ideas I come up with at home, or elsewhere outside of work, are related to the work I'm doing for the company.


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Mytical
Mytical


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Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted June 30, 2009 06:49 PM
Edited by Mytical at 19:15, 30 Jun 2009.

Going to do some thread cleaning.  Lets get this back on track as to the actual issue.  The difference, if any, between stealing and the file sharing sites..and of course the legal ramifications of that.

I'll be nice and remind people that this is NOT the VW.  A little offtopic is ok but it got way outta hand.  If I have to clean again, next time there will be penalties.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted July 03, 2009 10:32 PM

Really,people have it hard to overcome this BS.Not that the companies that produce music or else,are doing something godly to sue someone like that.

The legal actions are idiotic as is the importance of stolen music from a band.Who cares that music is stolen? They should care about preventing life loss and not this bullsnow.


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 03, 2009 10:58 PM

"stolen music" sounds ridiculous anyway.

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