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| Thread: OMG You Guys Won't Believe This: Mother Owes For Illegal Downloads |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted June 20, 2009 01:50 PM |
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Just a question then.
Is listening to music at Youtube stealing then?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 20, 2009 01:53 PM |
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Entertainment is not necessary for life.
Lmao  While I am normally not in favour of piracy it can be a voice of expression against exorbitant product prices. I am sure you can think of a few things. Again there are a lot more important issues that societies are faced with to impose life-destroying fines on regular people.
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 20, 2009 10:00 PM |
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1.92 million because of 24 songs? Seriously what the ****...
I understand that the point is to discourage people doing it but why not just set a death penalty because that would do the trick as well.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted June 21, 2009 02:00 AM |
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Quote:
Stealing is stealing no matter how it's done.
No, this is not stealing. Period.
A question for all of you who say this is stealing. First of all so we could all understand each other, define "stealing".
Because I think "sharing" fits here, not "stealing", you know you aren't depriving ANYONE of ANYTHING.
Quote:
This doesn't seem to be a successfull business, does it?
No, you should have said:
This doesn't seem to be a successfull 19th-20th century business, does it?
Right. It's not. Cause we're in the 21st century.
Quote:
It was never stealing in the first place. It was sharing.
There's one thing of note here. Capitalists usually say that sharing is bad, or something along those lines. They often use the argument that a "hive" society is against human nature, or that communism/socialism is against human nature.
Well guess what? People share, and it's in their nature to do so. If you shut down a sharing site, another one will pop up. So capitalists are actually against human nature.
Because when discussing human nature, you aren't looking at the few percent that are 19th or 20th century style entrepreneurs.
Quote:
- You can't copyright a number. Every file is written in a binary code and just think about if we in math were not allowed to write 1101 without having a permission
The most objective definition available.Quote:
- stealing through the internet is still stealing
define "stealing"Quote:
- if everybody copied and let others download it the companies wouldn't earn anything and no entertainment would ever be made.
Just like no free software is made? (e.g: GNU, Linux, The Gimp, Blender, free music (e.g: this guy), ... literally thousands of tools)Quote:
- we all know there is a reason that communism died.
Comparing the communism we had with socialism is like comparing fascists with capitalists.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted June 21, 2009 02:07 AM |
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The communism in Russia back then was called Stalinism for a reason. It wasn't really communism... More emergency communism or 'war-communism', which Stalin never changed back...
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted June 21, 2009 02:31 AM |
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If *this* is stealing, then how is a hacker going into a system, downloading all of it, then erasing everything knowing there's no backup?
How do you call that? You can't call it stealing since it's obviously a totally different thing altogether. So what is it?
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 21, 2009 02:41 AM |
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It's the same as what we did yrs ago.
Recording tapes off the radio. Copying CD's for friends.
It's sharing & it's exactly the same thing.
It's just the new high tech way of doing it.
Basically Artist who already make millions want to make more millions. I got no respect for those cry babies.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted June 21, 2009 02:42 AM |
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It's not illegal downloads, it's illegal file sharing. There's a difference - the sharing of one file can lead to thousands of downloads.
I do think this whole situation is ridiculous though.
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John says to live above hell.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 21, 2009 02:59 AM |
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Not really as them being serious.
They are using her as an example of how serious they want this to be stopped.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted June 21, 2009 03:33 AM |
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Well, technically, you either share or you rent it, but you don't buy it ever -- because you will never own it "legally". I mean, if you own it, why can't you share it?
I don't see people making a fuss if I share my computer with someone else. But with software, is that because we're moving into the 21st century with efficient "factories" that the majority can afford? (the computer is a software "factory")
Time to move on I say.
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Rarensu
Known Hero
Formerly known as RTI
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posted June 21, 2009 04:33 AM |
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This is an example of an unenforceable law. I believe that whenever a congress is considering a law, they should ask themselves, "can we actually enforce this law?" If they discover that they can't, then they should scrap it and draft up a new law that they actually can enforce.
Unenforceable laws don't fix problems, but they do have other effects.
They make it so that people don't have respect for the law. Speed limits are unenforceable, and so no one takes them seriously. When someone gets pulled over for speeding, they blame luck instead of themselves.
Another way that unenforceable laws are bad is that they waste money. We spend billions of dollars trying to lock up drug users and drug dealers but it really doesn't even scratch the surface of the problem. There are much more cost-effective ways to combat drugs.
Finally, unenforceable laws lead to ridiculous situations. Like how teenage boys are now child pornographers because their girlfriends keep sexting them. Because these laws are ineffective at fighting their respective crimes, they get abused and misused in a futile attempt to increase their power.
No more unenforceable laws! Scrap them all! Replace them with stuff that actually works! Compromise your values in exchange for results. We are not going to improve society by stubbornly insisting that people have to be perfect all at once. We are not going to shut down crime if we allow don't allow ourselves the tools to do so. We are not going to have a decent system of law until crimes can be met with punishment that makes sense.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 21, 2009 07:08 AM |
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First a different perspective, then a little edumacation () on the music buisness, then a summary. Sound good? Ok.
First lets looks at this in a different way. This woman breaks into a record store, steals thousands of CD's and gives them away. No doubt about it being stealing now right? Yeah I know it was her kid, but that is another matter. Lets be honest..the music was as much stolen as if it was physical CD's. Does that make the judgement right? Not even close.
Now a little lesson about the music business. People seem to think that only the ultra rich singers are effected, or just the record label. Far from the truth. First the singers get about 7 points (that is 7% of gross revenue) in a standard agreement. Song writers may get 1 or 2 points or a set ammount depending. So lets say that 90% goes to the actual record label. Now that record label pays for recording, packaging, and various other expenses that goes to 'average joe' type people. People who don't make millions a year.
Then their profit goes to people who have stock in those companies..most of the time again just average people. So you are not only stealing from 'J. Lopez' you are stealing from 'John Q. Worker'.
To sum it up, piracy raises prices, hurts common people who work for the music industry a LOT more then it hurts the big companies and the singers. Now there are exceptions when bands are the ones who act as their own record label..but still ordinary people still get hurt.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 21, 2009 08:37 AM |
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if this is "stealing", what are libraries? What are radios? They give us free music and books after all.
"intellectual property" is a ridiculous term. If I can get those for free elsewhere, in public property places like libraries, why can't I download it, for Christ's sake?
What is this "intellectual property"? Should it prohibit me from, say, hearing a song till I pay for it? THan why radios and youtube are legal?
What does anti-piracy meant to prove? What's its goal? to reduce piracy? What for? Are they actually dumb enough to think I'd pay 30$ for a CD on which I like 1-2 songs while earning 300$ per month? That's 10% of my income, lol.
No, if I couldn't download it, I wouldn't buy it at all. So both ways, they get NOTHING from me. I'd either listen to radios, or find songs on services on YT or - better - polish service wrzuta.pl where the quality isn't as abysmal.
Like 99.9% people is using pirated copies, and tiny, EXTREMELY WEALTHY groups of record studios are making fuss of it lol. "democracy" where 99.9% bow before some pitiful minority. How ironic. Especially when it comes to "crime" as ambiguous as piracy. I don't even consider it a crime.
And seriously, how much do those guys earn? I don't think it's really 500$ like your average Pole. And they still want more. More. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE. Lol, what for, they want another yacht?  Oh whatever, what I mean here is: there are REALLY not in position to complain. Because people not using pirated copies would NOT bring them more income at all: most are simply too poor to consider those HORRIBLY overpriced entertainment ways. Especially post-communist European countries.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 21, 2009 09:00 AM |
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Libraries have books GIVEN to them, usually by the author/publicist/ or family of the author so that in the future there will always be a copy for people to read. Radios get money from advertisement, and the companies OK them to play it. So, that is not really a good argument. However, I can fully understand not being able to pay for the CD's.
I've taped a music video to watch a couple of times myself. I may (not admitting anything) have even had a friend burn a CD or two..that doesn't make what I (Might) have did ok though. Should people who download a song or two be seen as criminals? No. Should those who share with maybe one or two friends? No. Not even the ones who use such sights as Kazaa. However, it is still stealing. We may try to justify it any way we want, but at least we should be honest with ourselves.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted June 21, 2009 09:05 AM |
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There sure are a lot of dishonest people around here seriously lacking in morals. Every single one of the arguments by these people are 100% rationalization.
I think thieves are some of the worst scum on this earth. I would literally rather deal with murderers than thieves. And yes I've known a couple murderers in my time and I've also known thieves. I absolutely would MUCH rather hang out with the murderers I've known than the thieves. At least they can be trusted whereas a thief can't.
Talking about bootlegs, piracy etc is even against the COC. All that stuff is illegal and Val knows it's illegal, that's why it's in the COC. Copyright laws are international, and virtually every country in the world has agreed to them. In the US it's even required by the constitution.
I really don't understand what it is about the internet that people think the normal rules, morals and norms don't apply. The internet is nothing more than the media for delivering the product. The rationalization people use for stealing is about like saying when a truck brings a product to the store that it's OK to steal that product as long as they don't steal the truck that brought it. The means of delivery is irrelevant. Stealing by downloading is no different than stealing anything else.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 21, 2009 09:09 AM |
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It's called sharing not stealing.
Maybe next time sharing will be another term of stealing.
Everyone Sharing is bad ok. Never share again
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted June 21, 2009 09:17 AM |
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Quote:
Because I think "sharing" fits here, not "stealing", you know you aren't depriving ANYONE of ANYTHING.
Actually, you are. You're depriving the record companies and the bands money which they should legally get. This thing you say is sharing is not sharing, it's stealing because you're not paying for those files. Think about the record companies and musicians. What if people just "share" for free and then what happens? The record companies won't earn any money, and what's the point of releasing albums that may only sell a very small amount and the rest is downloaded for free? Understand what I mean here?
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted June 21, 2009 09:20 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 09:21, 21 Jun 2009.
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"It's called sharing not stealing." <==== that's called rationalization.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 21, 2009 09:22 AM |
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Sorry, but if said mom had broke into a store and stole 1000's of CD's and then gave them away..we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everybody would agree it is stealing. Problem is that is basically what happened. Only the 'physical' aspect of it is missing. Again, I do NOT agree that her life should be destroyed because of it, and I think the ammount is WAYYY too excessive. I know it ain't popular but I think it is still stealing.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted June 21, 2009 09:29 AM |
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Just some points
1) It's extremely unlikely for the 1.92M to stand. It will almost certainly be lowered by a judge or settled out of court for a fraction of that amount.
2) I see a very good chance that she will actually profit from this, not lose money. All the money people are sending to her paypal account will probably be much more than whatever she settles for. She's probably laughing right now at all the gullible people who send her money.
3) People keep talking about her copying songs. This is NOT about her copying some songs for personal use, it's about her distributing thousands of songs at an illegal service.
4) It's not "sharing". Sharing is playing a CD for your friends at a party. Or maybe making a copy of some songs and giving it to a friend. Openly distributing thousands of songs is not sharing, it's blatant piracy. It's all a matter of degree. She crossed the line between a minor infraction that the recording industry has never really tried to stop, and outright piracy.
5) She was convicted of illegally and willfully distributing songs. Willfully basically means she was well aware that what she was doing was illegal and ignored the law and did it anyway.
6) It seems that a small majority of people here and elsewhere on the net side with her. She was convicted TWICE by a jury of her peers. Keep in mind that those 24 people who convicted her know FAR more about the case than the little bit of information reported by the news.
This is all about the illegal file sharing services that distribute millions of songs and movies. There are some practices that the recording industry has always looked the other way, such as using a tape recorder to make copies of songs. And even bar bands that play covers for a profit have always been overlooked. But these illegal file sharing services have just gone too far. The record companies would be total idiots to not go after those people for such blatant violation of the law.
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