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| Thread: OMG! Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson died! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 27, 2009 08:05 AM |
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Again, he has influenced you so much that you despise his music and what he stands for. That right there proves he has influence. Problem being that his music IS influencial, regardless of if bad or good. He HAS influenced western culture, music, fashion, dance, and people's lives. It is regardless that you think his music sucks, or if you think he is the second coming.
Your posting such heavy negative things actually proves his influence.
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mvassilev
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posted June 27, 2009 08:07 AM |
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Fair enough, but usually "influence" implies that you are manipulated (for lack of a better word) towards something, not away from it.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 27, 2009 08:16 AM |
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He also made one huge positive contribution to Western Culture. He and his family did help open doors for more African-American music. He may have not been ALONE doing it, but he did help considerably in that avenue. Some argue he became too 'white' but that is a debate for another day.
There are several people after the likes of Mozart that blew open doors that had been closed before.
Elvis. He was not the first person to 'rock and roll' but he made it popular.
Madonna. She paved the way for a lot of the female singers you see out there.
Michael. Made huge strides for African-Americans
I am not the biggest fan of rap, but the first rapper (whoever it was  )
Eminem - Only can tolerate maybe one or two of his songs, but he did what 'Vanilla Ice' couldn't.
So you don't have to like somebody's music or what they did to acknowledge that they did contribute to a culture.
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Aculias
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Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 27, 2009 08:25 AM |
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People are entitled to their opinions.
I for one respect MVass opinion about the music.
He is not the only one.
I dont like country, I dont expect people to cry me a river over it.
Pretty much the same thing.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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JollyJoker
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posted June 27, 2009 10:19 AM |
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Clearly, some people have no idea what art actuall is, and I don't think I'm harsh here. The plain facts are simple and very easy to see.
Like OTHERS (I'll name Madonna as an example).
MJ has been a "Gesamtkunstwerk" a total work of art.
It's NOT the music alone (even though you could name music of him that will be played as long as music is played), it's NOT his dancing (even though he will be remembered because of it and you will see people moonwalking as long as there will be dancers), it's NOT his videos (you could name a plethora of remarkable music videos, starting with Thriller which is more like a short movie and later on Bad as well, Black or White, Scream, Earth Song...)
It's not his bigger-than-life iconic stance, the media hypes, the scandals, the problems, the health and the TRAGIC of his whole life alone and it's not his clothing style or his commitment for welfare and for helping, for CARING.
It's all in all, and in this way he's one of the icons of pop CULTURE, not pop music.
So, while you CAN of oourse compare him with Bach that comparison is BOTH doing no favor. It would be like comparing DisneyLand with the Dome of Cologne, if you get my drift.
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 27, 2009 10:22 AM |
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As normal JJ put it a little better then I could. MJ the singer, MJ the dancer, and MJ as "Wacko Jacko" are only a small fraction of what makes MJ a cultural icon.
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted June 27, 2009 12:47 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 13:21, 27 Jun 2009.
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Ok...as promised, thread was cleaned.
And members who only post to provoke have their break....as promised.
And if this style goes on (in the OSM in general), I will take the same action. I am tired of people who only come to HC to have a good quarrel and a quote war for nothing.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 29, 2009 02:04 PM |
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Add Billy Mayes to the list. Maybe not as famous as the others who have passed recently, but if you've seen an infomercial chances are you have seen Billy Mayes.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted June 29, 2009 02:05 PM |
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Quote:
Add Billy Mayes to the list. Maybe not as famous as the others who have passed recently, but if you've seen an infomercial chances are you have seen Billy Mayes.
This hurts more than the loss of MJ.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted June 29, 2009 02:41 PM |
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I still don't see what there is to argue about.
Jackon had a cultural value Equal to Elvis. Point blank. Equal popularity, Same near-divine personalities, similar deaths, and the same bloody impersonators.
Still: A thinks he's great, while B does not. Big deal. Everyone has a different interpretation of Culture (and no, I won't give any descriptions), and people will always disagree with eachother. Does that change your views or opinions? Not if you already have one.
As a musician he WAS great. No point denying it. Losers simply don't get that immense royalties and popularity. He got it because he deserved it from his own talent and labor.
Jackson may have had pedophilic tendencies, but it was NOT proven. He's innocent, untill evidence says otherwise. (it have been an attempt of the "victim's" family to get a lot of money, I don't know). Imo he deserves the benefit of doubt (though I definately didn't like him). Society is always the first to condemn the eccentric.
Did he deserve to die? No. Should you like him? No. Is he a Cultural Icon? Without Question.
He may not be on the same page as Bach, Wagner, Beethoven or Aristotle (whatever), but I see no point in comparing Oranges to Lemons - They are both Citrus Fruits, but are different in taste, size and texture. That applies to Jackson as well.
I know this post will be ignored totally (happens always if a post contains too much common sense to argue against...), but I've said what I had to say.
Please don't start the Flamewar again - I'm the only one Licensed to Flame 
R.I. Peace. 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Totoro
Famous Hero
in User
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posted June 29, 2009 02:48 PM |
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Quote:
He may not be on the same page as Bach, Wagner, Beethoven or Aristotle
If measured by popularity, he's above them.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted June 29, 2009 11:22 PM |
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Yes, but all of them have been dead for ages.
Let's check it again in about 300 years 
And besides, popularity is only one factor (by the time of beethoven ,there were no such things as fan clubs)B
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Fauch
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posted June 30, 2009 02:03 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 02:04, 30 Jun 2009.
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actually the surgery wasn't such a failure. he looks weird, but not horrible, rather "unique"
he looks a bit like a girl also
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted June 30, 2009 07:50 AM |
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I thought it ws just a disease where his pigment drops and
culture encompasses art, science, religion and many things specificto only humans.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 05:08 PM |
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Did we forget about Ed McMahon? He died recently too.
Mytical:
Maybe he opened the door for some for whom the door should've remained closed. As did Madonna and Elvis.
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Eccentric Opinion
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alcibiades
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of Gold Dragons
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posted June 30, 2009 08:02 PM |
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When there's only one option left
A lot can be, and has been, said about Michael Jackson. One thing I think is almost indisputable is that he is, or has been, one of the greatest strategists when it comes to commercial succes. He seems to have an almost uncanny ability to make the right move at the right time - examples being teaming up with Quincy Jones as producer for Off The Wall (and later Thriller and Bad), working with Paul McCartney, Vincent Price and Eddie Van Halen for Thriller, focusing on the music video media just when MTV got popular, his purchase of the rights for the Beatles song catalogue (making him at odds with the same Paul McCartney) and of course his countless media stunts, all of which gave him an almost permanent spot in the centre of media attention throughout the 80's - and securing him record-breaking album sales.
Obviously, during the latter years, the whole thing back-fired, and he got so buried up in the whole strange image that one had to ask if he would ever be able to do something that would give him attention not for his strangenes but for his performance instead.
And now he is dead, and oddly, the thing that strikes me is that he could not have done anything better to help his legacy, or have done it and a better time. And it's not because I think he comitted suicide, I simply think he was a worn down, drug-addicted man, who died of overmedication and heart failure - even though his life must have been miserable enough to justify the act.
Making a status over his career, he took the catapultic rise to not only super-stardom, but hyper-stardom, beginning back at age 11 with Jackson 5 and "I Want You Back", but culminating some 10 years later with Off The Wall and, of course, Thriller. And then, he started the inevitable slide back towards the earth, with scandals about nose surgery, skin operations, strange pets, oxygene chamber, etc. etc. - a slide that pretty much became a free fall with the first accusations of child molestations back in 1993.
From this point in 1993, it seems to be pretty much all the wrong way with a legal settlement that never really settled anything, at least not the doubts, then a strange marriage with Lisa Marie Presley, only to be divorced less than two years later, then another marriage and two babies, another divorce, another baby (this one dangling over the infamous balcony in Berlin), and finally what could have been the final nail in the coffin - new allegations of child abuse back in 2005.
The first ray of light in more than a decade comes with the complete aquital of from all charges in 2008, and finally things seem to flow his way. But financial ruin is lurking, and a surprise comback tour by summer 2009 is announced.
So, what would the future have brought for Michael Jackson? If there's ever a time I should have to guess for the future, this would be one where I'm pretty certain: The 50 concerts planned could only end in disaster, one way or another. Since Michael has not been touring since 1997 - and back then, he did 90 % of the shows as playback - I hardly doubt he would be in vocal shape to do a succesful concert, much less 50. Judging from his appearance, he did not seem in physical shape to do shows on the level with what he used to do either. My guess is that reviews would be anything buy positive as shows would be deamed below his usual standard, and I hardly doubt he would be able to do all planned shows, leading to cancellation and further distress.
So, as fate would have it, Michael left us when he was finally on his way up again, even if he was far from old times glory, and before he was struck by another blow to bring him further down.
Personally, I feel sad by his fate. Not so much because he died - I honestly think that was just about the best thing that could befall his miserable fate by now. But because the media manage to lift him so high, and then bring him down so cruelly afterwards. Thinking about it, I can hardly imagine a more miserable life than that lived by Michael Jackson. I'm not a religious person, but if there was an afterlife, I can only imagine he'd be more happy where he is now.
Today, I smiled when I walked down the street, because a car drove by, with the windows open, and two huge, muscular and slightly brutish looking guys inside. From the stereo blasted Jam from Michael's Dangerous album. Nations to nations, all the world must come together, face the problems that we see, then maybe somehow we can work it out. Just as relevant now, as back in 1991. And this is the first time in 15 years where I can actually remember that it's cool to listen to Michael's music. This was not only music, this was a statement.
And it's everywhere - old and young. Checking in on iTunes download store, 8 (eight!) of the albums in the top 15 chart is Michael's, including the #1 and #2 slot. 8 albums in top 15 - when has any artist ever managed that in the history of music? It seems, that finally, his star shines again, brighter than ever. Like any large star when it dies, he leaves in a supernova, shining more brightly than during his life, if only for a short moment. Did you know about stars - that is, celestial bodies - that the larger and more bright they are, the sooner they die, and the more powerful a mark it leaves when it dies? It seems the same thing is true about stars like Michael.
I've been a fan since age 10. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but always a fan none-the-less. I saw him live twice, back in 1997, and that memory will always be with me. The music will always be with me. I can only hope that Michael will finally find peace, and that the grotesque scenary that was always his live will end now.
Like a comet, blazing 'cross the evening sky - Gone too soon
Like a rainbow, fading in the twinkling of an eye - Gone too soon
Born to amuse
To inspire to delight
Here one day
Gone one night
Like a sunset, dying with the rising of the moon - Gone too soon
Gone too soon
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What will happen now?
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted June 30, 2009 09:45 PM |
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I still don't understand how moonwalking works.
he looks like walking forward but he's weaving backwards.
just for that he deserves credit!
I wasn't a big fun of his music but this is soo awesome.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted June 30, 2009 09:59 PM |
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Doomforge
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posted June 30, 2009 10:16 PM |
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oh, I see. Well, I'm not much of a dancer anyway. Would be fun to walk like that to the shop or smth though 
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 30, 2009 10:59 PM |
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I don't get it with you people whining over celebrities. Is the celebrity worship culture so big in the states or what? 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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