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| Thread: what relievence does religion have now? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT» |
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bixie
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my common sense is tingling!
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posted July 16, 2009 11:03 AM |
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what relievence does religion have now?
contrary to what numerous religious posters have said (Elodin, I'm looking at you), I do take an interest in religion. A Polytheist by choice, I believe that all gods (christian, buddhist, shinto, animist, muslim etc) exist and they are only as powerful as their religion is.
straight to the point. Does religion have any relievence to society now?
In some ways, it does. Many western laws against murder, rape, theft and so on clearly have roots in biblical teachings. mythology make up the roots of many stories in film, literature and games, from conspiracy theories to armageddons and so on. and let us not forget that no matter how much we can deny it, the war in afghanistan is a religious war against a militant extremist muslim force, the Taliban.
but in other ways, it doesn't. We live in an information age, and unless people can provide proof to their theories, people are quick to dismiss it. also, the Rise of the more... Prickly (could I use that word?) believer have lead people to dismiss religion further as only for the fanatics. vast sections of society, such as business, medicine and law, are increasingly secular, in order to appeal to a growing diversity in population.
so, does religion have any relievence to society now?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 16, 2009 11:21 AM |
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What relevance?
Lol. Idk, ask a man dying of cancer, or is simply dying. Religion gives them the ability to die with content and peace.
Ask those who are abused, tortured, raped. Many of those people find comfort in religion, believing that what happens to them isn't the ultimate end of their miserable existence. Again, comfort.
Ask a kid who lost his mother, yet strongly believes she's with God now and will look after him, and that they will meet again someday...
Religion gives people comfort and peace in dire situations. While it's not "necessary", it's infinitely helpful in the situations described above. People who are suffering can at least find some peace in God and faith. If they were aware of oblivion that awaits them (as atheists usually believe) , they would suffer a lot more, I think.
It's so convenient to throw opinions and discard something sitting in front of your PC, healthy, raised in a loving family, with money, plans and great life.
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 16, 2009 11:31 AM |
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Bixie, I'd like you to clarify the meaning of your question.
Do you ask for the relevance of the religions of old, the world religions, or do you ask for the relevance of religions as such which can be anything?
So, answering to both: I think that relevance of religions of old is on the decline due to various factors - the discussion of which might lead us a bit too far - and has been so for some time.
Religion as such is still relevant for the people, though. Again for certain reasons, beliefs are much less organized and different, so many people have some "personal" belief or quasi-religion, but that is happening on a much more private level and has therefore a lot less visible and direct impact on society.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted July 16, 2009 11:42 AM |
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Quote:
contrary to what numerous religious posters have said (Elodin, I'm looking at you), I do take an interest in religion.
Before I answer your question perhaps you could back up your claim about what I said.
I do not recall ever having said you do not take an interest in religion. Perhaps you could provide a link to where I said that you "do not take an interest in religion."
It is interestig that you chose to open your thread with a jab at me and that gives me a clue about where you want to take the thread.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted July 16, 2009 11:42 AM |
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Edited by bixie at 14:58, 16 Jul 2009.
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I mean the world religions of old.
Quote:
Before I answer your question perhaps you could back up your claim about what I said.
I do not recall ever having said you do not take an interest in religion. Perhaps you could provide a link to where I said that you "do not take an interest in religion."
It is interestig that you chose to open your thread with a jab at me and that gives me a clue about where you want to take the thread.
Quote:
Enjoy your man-made opiate of atheism/socialism/marxism/communism and I'll enjoy the truth of Christ.
I had stated before in the thread, I wasn't atheist, or communist.
It is not you in particular, Elodin, there is no reason to take it personally. would you like me to mention all the banned members who have done similar things to you only much worse as an opening rather than your name? would that appease you? names like KD, Like Zan Jeruselam? would that appease you?!
I wanted to direct this thread to you, because on this matter, your oppinion would be the most interesting. If you take offense at it, then I apologize.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted July 16, 2009 01:17 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 13:20, 16 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
I had stated before in the thread, I wasn't atheist.
So I did not say what you claimed I said.
Furthur, I would like you to link to what you quoted so I can put it exactly in the context in which I said it. I know you did not do a copy and paste because I would not have written Christ or God in lower letters. Well, I could have done a typo. 
What I was pointing out (to my recollection) is you are saying your beliefs are true and condeming me for saying mine are true. I say Christianity is true and make no apologies for it.
2+3 can't be both 5 and 7.
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It is not you in particular, Elodin, there is no reason to take it personally. would you like me to mention all the banned members who have done similar things to you only much worse as an opening rather than your name? would that appease you? names like KD, Like Zan Jeruselam? would that appease you?!
What do you claim I am doing? What I am doing is speaking what I believe and not rolling over and letting the anti-Christians rape me.
I discuss things in the exact tone that they are using.
When they lie I call them on it. When they condemn me for saying my beliefs are true I point out they are saying their beliefs are true.
And yes, I have been warned a couple of times to stop speaking strongly. But the thing is "the other side" is allowed to speak as strongly as they want and insult me as much as they want to. Until I start speaking strongly back and then both of us are called down. Heck, recently somebody got a QP award for a post that he had made several jabs at me in. I had said nothing to him because that was his first post in the thread.
Now, once you post the link to what I said I'll put it in context and then I'll answer you question about the relevance of religion.
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted July 16, 2009 01:36 PM |
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Quote:
I discuss things in the exact tone that they are using.
No you're not.
The first conversation I had with you on this forum - I can't remember what page it was exactly but I'm pretty sure it was somewhere in the God thread - I was as calm and nice as I get and you attacked me just cause you were already in a frenzy and discussing something with atheists.
When people mocked and insulted Jesus, did he insult them back? No, not really. He answered enlighteningly and philosophically. That's, among other things, what he wanted us to do. I've sometimes - often, perhaps - made similar mistakes of responding to provocations with provocations but I'll be the first to admit that's not the right thing to do, even in such insignificant things as forum discussions. The moment people start "fighting fire with fire" they might as well leave the discussion because it stops leading anywhere. Responding to stones with stones is fundamentally against everything Christ preached; something a lot of people claiming they are Christians never quite understood.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted July 16, 2009 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I discuss things in the exact tone that they are using.
No you're not.
The first conversation I had with you on this forum - I can't remember what page it was exactly but I'm pretty sure it was somewhere in the God thread - I was as calm and nice as I get and you attacked me just cause you were already in a frenzy and discussing something with atheists.
If you are going to make a claim link to it.
Oh, Jesus spoke quite strongly to dishonest people and was gentle to honest people.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted July 16, 2009 02:26 PM |
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Jesus was a man of flesh, and he had his moments of weakness. Like that one when he asked why has his Father left him, when he was nailed to the cross.
I have no intention to browse through hundreds of pages of irrelevant discussion to find where you attacked me. By the nature of the posts, they might have even been deleted. But if I ever accidentally run into it, I'll let you know.
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baklava
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posted July 16, 2009 02:46 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 14:47, 16 Jul 2009.
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Here is the link. Found it over the Search function. I drew a parallel between democracy and the Bible and for that I was called an anti-American, hence an ignorant bigot, and also an anti-Christian.
Why?
Because I tried to draw one parallel.
And not only that, but in that thread you've claimed that animal sacrifice is alright because of freedom of religion, whereas you now argue in that abortion thread about how life is sacred and needs to be preserved at all costs.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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angelito
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posted July 16, 2009 03:31 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 15:31, 16 Jul 2009.
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Those who don't have anything to contribute should please stay out of this thread.
Cleaned.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted July 16, 2009 05:24 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 17:27, 16 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
Here is the link. Found it over the Search function. I drew a parallel between democracy and the Bible and for that I was called an anti-American, hence an ignorant bigot, and also an anti-Christian.
Why?
Because I tried to draw one parallel.
And not only that, but in that thread you've claimed that animal sacrifice is alright because of freedom of religion, whereas you now argue in that abortion thread about how life is sacred and needs to be preserved at all costs.
Your post seemed pretty anti-American. You said "A lot of wars were lead under the banner of that Constitution." And you compared what American is supposedly doing to the crusades. "I'm just drawing this parallel cause lately I've gotten that idea that Western Democracy of today plays a similar global role as Catholicism in the Middle Ages."
America is not a war-mongering nation. America did not start the world wars.
Actually I attacked your statements, not you. "Sorry, I think Anti-Americanism is just ignorant and bigoted. If not for America you would be kissing Nazi butt right now. When they let you peek out from under their boot that is."
Yeah, I said animal sacrifices are ok. So? I certainly don't agree with sacrificing animals but others have a different religion than me and they are free to practice their religion.
I am pro-life. Murdering babies is wrong. Executing criminals is not wrong. Killing an animal for necessary uses is not wrong. I won't try to interfere with someone sacrificing animals as a part of their religion.
Should I go through and list some of the many times I've been insulted? Even insulted by mnoderators?
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted July 16, 2009 05:31 PM |
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Might be irrevelant but I have to ask...
Quote:
I am pro-life. Murdering babies is wrong. Executing criminals is not wrong. Killing an animal for necessary uses is not wrong. I won't try to interfere with someone sacrificing animals as a part of their religion.
What if murdering babies is part of my religion?
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted July 16, 2009 05:59 PM |
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Quote:
What if murdering babies is part of my religion?
You don't have a right to kill babies because babies have a right to live.
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Darkshadow
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Cerise Princess
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posted July 16, 2009 06:03 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
What if murdering babies is part of my religion?
You don't have a right to kill babies because babies have a right to live.
And what if my god says they don't?
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted July 16, 2009 06:08 PM |
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I have given reasons why I believed there are political similarities between the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages and democracy of today. If comparing something to the Catholic Church is an insult, then there sure is something wrong with that Church.
You have told me that you are "not sure of my religious beliefs other than that I appear to be anti-Christian". I see no rational reason for drawing that conclusion except that I think differently than you and you consider everyone who thinks differently an anti-Christian. And I have "offended" the United States by comparing some of its policies to Catholicism.
About America not being a warmongering nation - I wrote about it in detail here. But no matter what kind of a nation the USA is, I neither attacked nor insulted it. You just understood it that way for God knows what reason, and leaped on me, calling my opinions anti-American and calling me an antichrist.
That's not the most Christian thing to do, is it?
Sacrificing an animal isn't killing it for "necessary uses", as much as sacrificing a baby isn't. You can't call yourself "pro-life" and then allow people to kill life because they believe their deities can't be appeased otherwise. A goat has a much higher level of consciousness than a fetus anyway. And a goat also has the right to live.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 16, 2009 06:54 PM |
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Im against execution and really any physical violence against criminals. People can change. To kill someone doesnt do any good. If my mum was killed I would not feel more happy if the murderer would have been executed.
Quote:
You don't have a right to kill babies because babies have a right to live.
So other animals then humans dont have right to live?
We humans are indeed the most cruel and down right "evil" animal in the Solar system. And I think that one of the strongest of our many, many moral problems is how we look down on other animals then ourselfs and view them as stupid creatures that just stand in the way for "humanity". I also hate people by a passion who argue that animals were created so that humans could rule over them and do whatever they want.
Just because other animals dont tend to communicate with a "language" like we do, doesnt mean they are stupid and serve no other purpose then getting eaten & beaten by humans.
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TheDeath
Responsible
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with serious business
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posted July 16, 2009 08:34 PM |
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Quote:
Im against execution and really any physical violence against criminals. People can change. To kill someone doesnt do any good. If my mum was killed I would not feel more happy if the murderer would have been executed.
What if he escapes from prison or is released conditionally and kills some more? How does that make you feel?
@DarkShadow: no you can't because that would be against the law in society. Of course you can freely kill yourself or some other adult who consents with your religion (if you do need a sacrifice or something)  (this was just an example as I'm sure your religion, if it exists, doesn't tell you to kill babies)
Quote:
So other animals then humans dont have right to live?
We humans are indeed the most cruel and down right "evil" animal in the Solar system. And I think that one of the strongest of our many, many moral problems is how we look down on other animals then ourselfs and view them as stupid creatures that just stand in the way for "humanity". I also hate people by a passion who argue that animals were created so that humans could rule over them and do whatever they want.
Just because other animals dont tend to communicate with a "language" like we do, doesnt mean they are stupid and serve no other purpose then getting eaten & beaten by humans.
I agree but what does this have to do with the thread?
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 16, 2009 09:30 PM |
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Well, then they should get high security prisons
Sweden doesnt have death penalty anywhere and rather short "punishments" compared to other countries (20 years is VERY high in Sweden) and I think it works good.
Criminals should also get good caring and help.
As for the animal thing. I was just pissed off how you can say that babies have more right to live then animals that are sacrificed.
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TheDeath
Responsible
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with serious business
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posted July 16, 2009 09:35 PM |
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What if he's released and kills again then?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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